Intro 0:00
I'm so glad you're here today. What does spooning have to do with taking care of your dog? Stay tuned because you're about to find out. Welcome to the Naturally Healthy Pets podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Judy Morgan. My guest today, Dr. Lisa McFaddin, is an integrative and rehabilitation veterinarian with a diverse clinical background that includes general practice, emergency, and relief work. I feel like we all have to go through all the different things. Which welcome, thank you for being here.
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 0:33
Thanks for having me.
Dr. Judy Morgan 0:34
So, I for me, so I started in general practice. I think most of us do that because there aren't any truly integrative veterinary schools at this point. Where'd you go to school?
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 0:43
Virginia Tech.
Dr. Judy Morgan 0:44
Virginia Tech. So yeah, not not integrated. So I went to University of Illinois Midwest early '80s. There was nothing holistic about that. So just you know got started off on the very very general practice foot, which is great because we all need to go through that to kind of learn the ropes, figure out what we're doing, and then I spent 10 years in emergency medicine. How long did you do emergency?
Dr. Lisa McFaddin
Four or five.
Dr. Judy Morgan
And I feel like every young veterinarian should spend time in emergency medicine. I learned so much, and I already had 10 years of experience. No, I had five years of experience when I started doing it, so I thought I had a pretty good handle on things. And like my first ER shift, I was a deer in the headlights, and thankfully I had these amazing technicians who were, you know, the first hit my car came in and I was frozen in place. And they were like, "So should we get some labs and put in an IV catheter and maybe start some fluids. Would you like some shock medicine? I'm like, yeah, that sounds great. That sounds great. You know, and so they taught me so much. The first bloat surgery that came in at two a.m. I was just like, oh my god, give me give me the book. Somebody like give me the surgery directions. So yeah, we all should go through that.
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 1:59
That's how my first code went. The technician said the cat's not breathing, and I I was an intern at the time, and I said we should get a doctor. We should get a doctor, and they said aren't you a doctor? And I said that is a solid point. And they said do you want us to put in a catheter? And I said yes, I do. Do you want some epinephrine? I sure do.
Dr. Judy Morgan 2:23
So you know, folks, none of us are infallible, and we all have to start somewhere and learn. So be nice to the veterinary technicians in your practice because if they've got some new veterinarians in there, those technicians might be the ones that are getting the ball rolling.
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 2:38
Yeah, the baby doctors definitely need.
Dr. Judy Morgan 2:40
Yeah, yeah. Baby doctors need need the guidance yes and the technicians can be an awesome source of that so I I and my technicians my staff absolutely love those clients that always come with gifts in hand oh you brought us bagels oh you brought us donuts and you can bring them healthy things bring them fruit.
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 3:01
I bring edible arrangements if I get them. Edible arrangements.
Dr. Judy Morgan 3:05
See, that's a combination of flowers and fruit. Perfect. So take good care of your veterinary staff because that's kind of who's in charge of what's going on. Anyway, so but your big love that you found over this time is
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 3:22
so musculoskeletal and neurologic conditions are where I've kind of honed everything in, and it's been it's definitely been a metamorphosis. I actually started taking acupuncture because I was working at a practice that just wasn't gelling, and I wanted my own niche, and I wanted something that I could do that nobody else there did, and so they couldn't tell me I was doing it wrong. And then I actually, during that time, started my own relief business, and that was nice because I got paid to study for acupuncture because I did a lot of overnight shifts for the ER. So, and then it was like potato chips after that, as far as integrative goes,
Dr. Judy Morgan 4:02
just little bits of time, yeah, and then and you can't have just one. So you learn one modality, and it's like, what else is there? because it's so cool. So my first one was chiropractic.
Dr. Lisa McFaddin n 4:12
Oh, cool.
Dr. Judy Morgan 4:13
I and I wasn't even sure I believed in it, and I didn't realize it was a chiropractic course when I signed up for it. And then I'm sitting there going, I really think this guy's talking about chiropractic. I don't know if I believe in this. I think I should leave, and I'm like, we paid all this money. I guess I'm staying. And then when I got back and started using it, I was like, well, this is cool. Like, what else is out there? And that started this whole shift.
Dr. Judy Morgan 4:36
And so that kind of happens to all of us. And what I found is that every integrative veterinarian I've talked to, every small business owner in the natural pet space, they all have this like something just excites them and they gravitate toward it. So for you, it's kind of the rehab and musculoskeletal. And neurodegenerative stuff, and so once we find that niche, it's like okay, I'm all in. So, but you're actually not working in an integrative practice. So tell us what that's like.
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 5:15
Well, I was at a very small practice for about 10 years. There was two and a half of us, and I was medical director, and all of us did integrative medicine. and I wanted to expand, and I had the opportunity to start a rehab service and an integrative service at a. There's eight or nine of us, a large Western practice, and so I came on board with the understanding that I would be doing Western and Eastern, well, Western and integrative, and I was predominantly responsible for creating my clientele. And they did help with, and they are helping with marketing some, but a lot of it is referrals from where I was, and then I get referred a fair number of cases from the local rehab practitioners because there aren't very many small animal chiropractors. And my favorite is the complicated rehab case, and so and that's usually what I get is they kind of plateaued and so they say send them to McFaddin.
Dr. Judy Morgan 6:25
Well yeah, that's kind of the oh we've been to 27 doctors it's not getting better you're our last hope
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 6:31
Yeah but I like that because there's really low expectations at that point
Dr. Judy Morgan 6:35
well okay that is one way to look at it it's like okay well you know 27 other people failed. If I win it's a big win.
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 6:42
Exactly. If I make if I make your animal a little bit better, then yay for me. If I didn't, I tried, and
Dr. Judy Morgan 6:48
I tried, and I'm in the same boat as the other 27 So I I kind of like that attitude. I was always like, oh man, I I have to make this work because everybody else failed, and ah, I can't be a failure too.
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 7:00
It's kind of like when none of the technicians can get a catheter in, and then you're the last one because usually they don't go straight to the doctors. And I'm like, well, at this point, I'm gonna finally miss. Everyone else missed, so
Dr. Judy Morgan 7:12
yeah, I can only win.
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 7:13
Yeah, but then when I do get my traditional post-op healthy TPLOs, it takes me a minute to say, oh right, there can be normal like postoperative recovery.
Dr. Judy Morgan 7:27
Ok so all I have to do with this one is make a rehab plan to get them through post op. It's it's almost easy.
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 7:32
Yeah, yeah, but it takes me a minute to reset my brain.
Dr. Judy Morgan 7:36
So, what are your favorite tools? Yeah, and well, actually, what are some of the different tools that you have in your toolbox that you're using for rehab and physical therapy?
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 7:47
So, as far as modality-wise, my primary are manual therapy, so massage, fascial work, trigger point, chiropractic, and then I also do acupuncture and physical tools aside from acupuncture needles, I do a lot with fascial scrapers and with spoons.
Dr. Judy Morgan 8:08
Okay, you'll have to explain that. What is a fascial scraper, and what the heck are you doing with spoons? And are we talking kitchen spoons? And if so, what size?
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 8:18
Well, I kind of wish I had brought it down. So I predominantly use miso soup spoons, and the best thing is, is that then all of my all of my assistants get to be called master spooners, and it makes everyone feel great. So when you hold, I need a demo. I don't. I should have brought a spoon. When you hold a miso soup spoon towards the end of the handle, the flat surface provides a nice even pressure. So you're doing a very gentle massage, which is technically called effleurage. And I can have my assistants do it at one end while I work at the other end, and it has a nice calming effect. But it also, because of the fact that they're haired, when it moves the little sorry, when it moves the little hairs back and forth, it stimulates the receptors in the hair bulb. So you actually get pain reduction, and then you also get a little bit of fascial release. So it's this multi-tiered, just from a spoon. It's pretty cool.
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 9:18
I'm telling you, it works so well. And then my clients are-they're always entranced. And then I tell them I have them demo, and then they feel really excited that they can spoon. And then I tell them to go get a miso soup spoon, and
Dr. Judy Morgan 9:29
and they're spooning their animals at home, which is great because they're getting more stimulation and more release in between visits.
Dr. Judy Morgan 9:38
this is so cool. Do you have videos on this,
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 9:41
I can.
Dr. Judy Morgan 9:42
I'm pretty sure we need to get some videos on this, and we need to teach people how to spoon their animals. Oh my god, this is great!
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 9:52
You could, yeah. I mean, instead of a master class, it's a master spooning
Dr. Judy Morgan 9:56
A master spooning, I love it. So, what other interesting tools were you using? We've got acupuncture needles and miso soup spoons, and I have never heard this before, so I love this.
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 10:06
So the fascial scrapers are I predominantly use the well, they don't make veterinary ones, but I I use the so fascial scrapers gua sha is the one that you most commonly hear about for people where they use it for the face, and those are made out of jade, and that just seems like a great way to break jade. If I was using it on an animal, but they are meant to help you primarily hold it perpendicular to the plane of the fascia, and then you're moving it back and forth. And in people, you can see the redness that starts to form, as well as feel the fascia release. And in animals, if I have a super tight area that they're just not responding to some of the other therapies, I can use it. I will say though, it some of the scrapers like like a lot of them just kind of look like I have one that looks like a boomerang. And then my husband for Christmas, got me this. I forgot I had asked for it, and I didn't know what it was. And I honestly thought it was a rifle when I first opened it because it came in this like flat, long case. And I was like, "Great, thanks, thanks. And I opened it, and it was I don't know, 15 different fascial scrapers. And so some of them look like boomerangs, some of them have little handles, and it's all just so you can hit different areas of the body. Some of them are really little, meant for the face and people. I've never actually tried fascial scraping the face of an animal. I feel like I
Dr. Judy Morgan 11:32
It might not go well.
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 11:34
Well, I mean, I would definitely be promoting dentistry in my clinic. I think you did it.
Dr. Judy Morgan 11:40
This is very cool. So I have not heard of the use of fascial scrapers and spoons. So we're all learning something together here. So yeah, we need we need a we need a video of that as well. This this is very cool. So what other tools do you use? I'm afraid of what's going to come up next.
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 11:59
I know. I really have potato mashers and blenders. I know I need something more exciting. I I shouldn't have started with the spoon. I kind of I you know should have ended with that. I also use traditional kind of tools for rehab, so like your cones, cavallettis, and then I have this giant styrofoam bail that I do most of my treatments and adjustments on, and I find that most dogs, if they're not big enough to be on the table, then they do really well on the bail, and it's I don't know maybe 18 inches tall, and then I have a chair that I sit in, and even if they're really nervous, once you bring them up a little bit higher, they don't feel so crowded over, and so a lot of them do much better on the bail.
Dr. Judy Morgan 12:52
I would agree with that. And interestingly, I have a friend who he's a dog park guy, but he designs dog park equipment, and part of that is these platforms, and they also make those big styrofoam bales that you're talking about. But they actually had studies where they showed a 40% increase in adoption rate at shelters and humane societies that have what you're talking about the little the you know either a bridge or a bale or something where the dogs are kind of up at a they're off the ground, and so you're not down over them, but you're kind of getting more eye contact with them. And they found that it increased the adoption rate because the dogs felt more comfortable and the people could interact with them better than you know having the dogs down lower, so it's it is something that you know in veterinary practice. I will you know we all want to throw them up on the table, which I did a lot of stuff on the floor. My best exam room didn't even have a table in it because I wanted to you know be down with the animals. But we all have had the I'm not practicing those lift tables, those elevator tables, which is great because it gets the dog up. But they're scary as heck when you put the dog on and they start to move, and you know then we've got injuries and dogs flying, and it's really awful. So I like that. I like just getting them up on something that just gives them. It's a different comfort level.
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 14:17
Yeah, yeah, and I I will say the first time, if they seem a little nervous about it, sometimes clients seem kind of uncomfortable with it. But then, once we get them up there, and they the dog's actually much calmer, and I explain it to people, hey, we're putting your dog on a pedestal. Everyone should be on a pedestal. So then they get put on a pedestal and spooned. You know, I mean, what more could you want? I will say another tool that I use is a lot of frozen peanut butter.
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 14:43
yes. So we have tons of cups with that are lined on the inside with frozen peanut butter or frozen squirt cheese if they have a peanut allergy. Because I am a firm believer in bribery and it's a positive experience. And so many of my patients, the owner says, I hit the parking lot and they just wanted to. Run in, and then they run in the room, and they hop up on the bail. And then if the bail is up, and I haven't laid it down, sometimes they're trying to hop up on it. And at that point, it's I don't know four feet tall, and I keep thinking, if you can get on there, then I did a good job.
Dr. Judy Morgan 15:12
Yeah, then you may not meet me anymore. But the you know this is, and we're talking about rehab, but I I love the positive reinforcement and making because so many of the animals are scared to death. You hit the parking lot; they're already screaming. They hit the front door. We've got some that fall down and have a seizure because they're just so scared. And one of the things that I did in my clinic-good luck talking your employers into this-but I had rubber floors throughout my clinics, and a couple of my friends were building brand new clinics, and they came over and they looked at my floors and they said they're not shiny. I said I know they're black, and they had little speckles, and you can get the little speckles. And actually, I could have gotten the rubber in other colors, but I was like, "Oh, this is fine. And it is amazing when you take senior animals or animals with mobility issues, and you give them something with good traction, they come running down the hallway instead of these other two clinics that were built. They both put in polished porcelain tile, which was a slip slide. Yeah, and so one of the clinics was where our cardiologists would come, so I have to take my dogs there to see the cardiologist, and I'd sit there in the waiting room with my dogs in my lap. And every dog that came in the front door, they would come in, stand on the mat, and then hit the brakes because there's no way they were walking on that porcelain floor. And these poor technicians were running back and forth, carrying 80-pound dogs that wouldn't walk on these floors, and I couldn't get these veterinarians to understand that you know if you just put in these rubber floors, they're they're actually less expensive, they're soundproof, they don't hold any odor, and your patients love it, love it. So anyway, everybody needs rubber floors, but most veterinarians want shiny floors. I I don't know why. I guess it's it's that hospital feel of it's it's all shiny and clean. Yeah.
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 17:12
Well, in the room that I primarily utilize, I have the puzzle mats.
Dr. Judy Morgan 17:16
The puzzle mats, which you would yeah, and that's what I used before I get my rubber floors put in, and those are a great thing to use in the house. We can talk about tricks for people. We need to take a break to hear from our sponsor. We'll be right back.
PRODUCT SPOTLIGHT #1
I've been upset for some time about the growing corporate consolidation of independent veterinary practices. Are you experiencing longer wait times? Are your visits cut shorter? Do you find it to be more expensive? The future is clear. Quality of healthcare is no longer guaranteed for your pet. But there's a new gateway to avoid this difficult path. Dr. Ruth Roberts offers a holistic pet health coach program where you take control of your pet's health. This is not your typical quickie course to get limited bits of information. This comprehensive program teaches the scientific foundation of your pet's system to understand health issues and how nutrition, natural supplements, and therapies can support intermediate care. This is truly a complete pet healthcare program. So take charge now. You can go to the Holistic Pet Health Coach website for more information, and you can get a special one-time discount of $250 if you use the code DRJUDY when you apply. To learn more, visit druthroberts.com/pages/coach or scan the QR code shown here. This discount is valid until december 31 2026 This episode is sponsored by Dr. Ruth Roberts Holistic Pet Health Coach Program, where you learn to take control of your pet's health care.
Dr. Judy Morgan
Welcome back to the Naturally Healthy Pets podcast. My guest, Dr. Lisa McFaddin, is an integrative and rehabilitation veterinarian who happens to work in a traditional practice. So, tell us what's what that's like. So, this is an eight or nine doctor practice. You're the only alternative integrative person, there. Do you get referrals from other veterinarians in the practice, and has it been hard winning them over?
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 19:35
yes and no. So I when I started because the the place that I work, they have eight clinics. Yeah, they have eight clinics in Northern Virginia, and I went around and did a little lunch and learn at each clinic.
Dr. Judy Morgan 19:52
Smart move.
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 19:53
And talking about integrative medicine, my one like flaw in the plan was I should have done the clinic where. I was gonna work last because I got better at it the more I did it, and so it. I think it really helped. And part I don't know what part exactly resonated, but there's a clinic that's maybe 20-30 minutes away from us, and they were just all over it and super excited. And so I I started getting so many referrals from them before I ever got a referral from any doctor in the practice where I was working.
Dr. Judy Morgan 20:29
Sounds familiar.
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 20:30
Yeah, and it one of the doctors her she had an older dog who was I think 15 or 16, and she was having a lot of mobility issues, and she had a lot of other systemic issues. And so she asked if I could take a look at her, and I started working on her, and she started feeling really well. And then I started getting referrals, and then it kind of blossomed from there. And I do think that I do get rehab referrals if they have a patient that they know had surgery who isn't going to another rehab facility, but now it's kind of become that dog's limping McFaddin, neuro McFaddin, which is fine. And I think because you get used to in a in a multi doctor practice like Doctor So and So loves dentistry, you know. Oh, you should go. It's a complicated dental case. You should go see Doctor X. It's a complicated kidney case. You should go see Doctor Y. So I think they kind of got into the idea of if it's a complicated orthopedic or neurologic, they now have somebody that they have who can they can refer to internally that can help.
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 21:46
And then that really helped as far as them becoming more open to the idea of referrals.
Dr. Judy Morgan 21:55
Yeah, because sometimes that can be really tricky when you're working in a practice with traditional doctors, and it's like I've got a pill for that, and meanwhile you're the integrated person going, I've got something to offer that might not need that pill,
Dr. Judy Morgam 22:12
So if they come to you and they're on all kinds of medications, you know, NSAIDs, pain meds, is it your goal to kind of work their way off of those things?
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 22:26
It depends what the primary doctor, what their idea is. So I try very much to work with them, and if they're very set in these are the medications that we want to be on, then I will often, in my at least record, make suggestions for supplements or herbs or nutritional recommendations. But I don't really push it just because I am still new. So, but I will say that I don't know. I had been there maybe two months, and a couple of the doctors were talking about they both had Cushing's cases, and neither one of them was responding to Trilostane. And I just walked by and said, "There's an herb for that. There's an herb for that. And then walked by, and then I came back later, and they said, "Did you say there was an herb for Cushing's, and I said, "Well, there are a couple of different formulas that can often help with the clinical signs, and if you cannot regulate them on Trilostane, or even if they're on it and they're still having negative signs, you can often use an herbal formula. So then we would play the hey, the animal comes in for a. blood draw, and then I do a quick tongue and pulse, and then I would recommend an herb. So it it was a nice way to kind of sneak it in, right?
Dr. Judy Morgan 23:53
You need to get a lot sneakier. That was very good,
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 23:56
and and then I did the same thing. Happened with a few fluted cases, like the you know kitties with urinary issues, and so now if they have a case that's especially an endocrine case that's not going well, I'll often they'll come up and say, "Is there an herb for that? And I'll say, Yes,
Dr. Judy Morgan 24:18
yes, we can fix that. We can help. Yes, we could do a little diet tweak. We could. Yes, we could. We could add some plants and herbs.
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 24:27
I. I like to tell them that herbs are like apps.
Dr. Judy Morgan
Herbs are like apps?
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 24:32
Yeah. You see, there's an app for that. There's an herb for that.
Dr. Judy Morgan 24:34
I like that.
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 24:35
And I will. The. I don't remember how long I've been there. I couldn't have been there more than a couple of months. And they were talking about food, and they were talking about what they feed their own animals. And then they asked me, and I said, "I feed raw. And you could have heard a pin drop, and it was record scratched. Looked at me. I kind of feel like one of them hissed. I love everyone I work with they're all very they're all great doctors. It was just really funny because I I feel like it set me back as far as some of the headway I had made.
Dr. Judy Morgan 25:11
So maybe we need to change that instead of I feed raw food because that really is a trigger for so many traditional veterinarians. I feed human grade whole foods to my pet.
Dr. Judy Morgan 25:24
could be gently cooked. could be raw. Could be who knows, but at least it's human grade.
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 25:29
Yes.
Dr. Judy Morgan 25:30
So we're gonna just change that up for your next conversation.
Dr. Judy Morgan 25:34
Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, next time you're in one of those meetings and they're talking about food, hey, well, I feed human grade food to my my dog and God he's doing great you know he really doesn't have all those chronic problems yeah isn't that amazing yeah I mean we unfortunately for a lot of pet owners I had this happen to me so one of our dogs that we adopted at the age of 15 Cocker Spaniel with you know the chronically draining infected horrible MRSA ears where the eardrums were broken, so it was inner ear, outer ear, just draining pus all over my house. Tried everything I could to cure this, nothing worked. So he needed to go in and have an ear canal ablation. You know, kind of the last ditch, but he's 15 and a half at this point. I'm like, I just want you to be comfortable. And so I was at work, and my husband took the dog to drop him off, and he took his food with him. And I said, "Honey, there's no way they're going to refrigerate that raw food. So why don't you take freeze-dried raw in a baggie? Just tell them to add water. I mean, they don't have to worry about it being stored. Don't have to, you know, worry about it. And so he drops the dog off, and he says, "And here's the dog's food because he had to spend the night, and all you have to do is add some warm water. And the technician kind of takes the baggie between her two little pincher fingers, and says, "Is this raw? And my husband's like, "Well, it's freeze dried. Oh my god, it's raw! And she like literally threw the bag and ran to the back, got gloves, gowns, booties, and said, "This dog has to stay in ICU because he's a raw-fed dog, and you need to go home and get something else for this dog to eat because we are not feeding that. So you know, I've had it happen to us, and I know this happens to clients. So we have to give them different terminology when they're dropping off their pets that are raw fed because you know I'm very lucky now. Well, yes and no. I don't have a license in the state where I live because I'm retired. Ha ha. So I had to find a veterinarian to take our animals to if they need a dental or if they you know we had a cat who broke a leg. Got to go in and see somebody, and so I went in. And the first thing I said to the doctor when she walked in is, I said, "Look, we feed raw, we feed homemade. I don't vaccinate. I don't use drugs on my animals. And she went, "Cool. I went. Wow, we can stay here. This is awesome. So you know you need to find that doctor. But when you have an emergency or you have to go to a specialty clinic, you kind of get the response that you got, like or the response I got, like oh my, you're gonna kill everybody. Yeah, it's a little crazy. So food is like, I mean, that's that's kind of my foundation of everything. We always have to fix the food. So I would bet that if you want to fix diet in your rehab, you're probably getting a little pushback on that.
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 28:25
Yeah, that I phase four.
Dr. Judy Morgan 28:30
Based on the response that you got when you said you feed raw, like they're not gonna let me come back.
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 28:37
So far, I mean, phase one I think is going pretty well. I don't really actually have phases, but I feel like it sounds great.
Dr. Judy Morgan 28:43
So, so these animals are coming in, and you're getting to do all this outpatient rehab, acupuncture. When clients leave the office, because they're how often do you usually have people come in for this kind of stuff? Is it like a weekly thing, every other, three times a week. I mean, you know, I go to the chiropractor, and he's like, "All right, we'll see you three times a week for the rest of your life.
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 29:07
I the most often I'll start with every other week, and if I have a dog that's acutely can't use their back legs, or I guess all four legs, then I will see them as often and as weekly, but I tend not to do more than that. If I'm doing cold laser therapy, then that they would come in multiple times a week. But that's usually with a technician. So often these guys are every other week, and then we go to monthly, and then we go to every other month, and then we do our quarterly maintenance for a lot of them,
Dr. Judy Morgan 29:41
and when the so in between those sessions, are you giving clients things to do at home? Are they do they have exercises, massage techniques, any kind of therapies that you're? Well, obviously they're spooning.
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 29:53
Well, I mean clearly everyone's spooning. If they're not. Working with another rehab practitioner, then I will often give them exercises. I do have a subset that of clients that work with sporting dogs, and then I work with a lot of protection dogs.
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 30:13
So we talk about warm up and cool down, and the the big thing with sporting dogs is the need to take a break to have a day off because it is very important to condition. It is very important to make sure you're doing it correctly. But they also need a break, like and sometimes we're prone injury if we don't have a break.
Dr. Judy Morgan 30:38
Well, I would say that same applies to human athletes. but but yes, you know I know a lot of people with competitive dogs, and the the really good ones. They're like, yeah, we get this many days a week off, and on those days off, we do something fun that has nothing to do with this. And I think the ones that are really good, they're also doing an awful lot of work that is not just running agility or not just whatever the other, you know, dock diving, but a lot of core strength and a lot of, you know, the kind of stuff that an athlete would do. It's interesting. I was watching something the other day, and it was ice skaters off the ice.
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 31:35
Thought we were going to talk about dogs ice skating. I got really excited. But there you go. Yeah.
Dr. Judy Morgan 31:38
No, not. But they do. They do skateboard. But you know it's just like off the ice work is just as important, For riders, riders of horses that are competing at really high level, those riders spend a lot of time in the gym with weights and core exercises. It's not just riding the horses because there's so much more that goes into it, and so I think that sometimes that gets forgotten with our canine athletes. It's just like go go go go, or we get the opposite, which is the weekend warrior where I didn't do anything all week, and now we're going to go out and hit it hard.
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 32:17
Yeah, yeah, and a a lot of so I you have to kind of tailor your recommendations to what the client's goals and needs are right. And for your average pet owner, I'm very practical about the rehab exercises because I think okay, well, if it was me, would I realistically spend 20 minutes a day doing exercises for my dog, and I no, so I try to incorporate activities that work with their lifestyle. So if you're taking your dog for a walk, you're gonna do so many sit to stands or sit to down to stands, or we do backwards walking, side stepping, hills, and you know, and you can incorporate it. And I'm a big proponent of doing a lot of like spinal flexibility too to help improve. And I mean, the easiest thing you can do is have them correct their posture when they're seated. Yeah, no kidding. Like the sloppy sitters, right? They're so it just amazes me when you get these high level competing sport dogs that come in and they have an awful sit and and I equate it to okay, well if I walk around with my shoulders hunched, it I'm gonna end up with so many issues because my body is just gonna those muscles are gonna pull in, other muscles are gonna get lazy, so even just working on your seated posture. So I like to try and tailor it to what they're gonna do, and my favorite are there's so there's a sport called PSA, and it's like the American version of Shitzen or IPO, and it's it's crazy. It's like they have to do protection work, but there are these weird scenarios. Like sometimes they have to run through a van, and then there's like like one time there was a picture of a guy in a canoe, and I really wanted to Photoshop it so it looked like the dog was walking on water because it was that was who the dog was supposed to go after, and he was in a canoe. And then I was like, McFaddin makes your dog walk on water. But it's really cool because it's so unique, all of these environments that they're in, that it gives you the opportunity to be really creative. As far as okay, it's not your classic. Your dog's looking up at you the whole time while you're walking, and like with the French ring or the IPO, where they have to be right on them. And I, I so I like working with the different everything from the weekend warrior to the sporting dogs because it gives you plus you can use a lot of what the sporting dogs. Do to help clients,
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 35:02
And it variety is going to make them more interested, right? And so, all they have to do is tell a dog to stand up and sit back down. I'm going to get so much better compliance than go outside and do cavallettis for 20 minutes.
Dr Judy Morgan 35:16
But there is so much that people can do at home. Oh yeah, and 100% And I, I think that I, I mean, me as a dog owner, and for me when I was working with patients and clients, when we give them something to do at home, we're empowering them and making them part of the process. Yeah. So a lot of times for me, it was okay. Here's the diet I want you to make, or here's the additions I need you to make to the food, and you know, for for clients, it's just like, okay, I'm I'm doing this, I'm helping, I'm giving them something to do. So in your case, you're getting them to get a spoon. I, you know, really in your practice, you should just buy a gross of those and just be handing them out. That's a, you know, come on, it's a marketing opportunity. We can have the McFaddin spoons.
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 36:05
I call it the McSpoon.
Dr. Judy Morgan 36:07
The McSpoon. I love it. Time for a break from our sponsors. Maybe it'll be the McSpoon. We'll be back in a few minutes.
PRODUCT SPOTLIGHT #2
If your dog is slowing down, struggling with stairs, or hesitating to jump in the car, you know something isn't right. Joint and mobility issues are a leading cause of shortened lifespan, and finding a supplement that truly helps can be frustrating. That's why my colleague, integrative veterinarian Dr. Peter Dobias, with more than 35 years of experience, created Joint Powder, the world's first fermented joint supplement for dogs, thanks to a proprietary dual-stage fermentation process, it is seven to 10 times more bioavailable than conventional supplements, delivering more effective support where your dog needs it most. Made with 13 human-grade natural and organic ingredients, joint powder supports joint comfort, flexibility, cartilage repair, bone health, and tendon function. So a single formula can replace three to five separate products and lower your costs. It's designed for every life stage, helping puppies and young dogs develop strong ligaments and joints, and supporting a healthy inflammatory response in adult and senior dogs, it comes in recyclable glass and is never sourced from China. Give your dog the chance to move with joy again. Try joint powder risk-free with a lifetime money-back guarantee at jointpowder.com, and use promo code DRJUDY for 20% off your first order.
Dr Judy Morgan
Welcome back to the Naturally Healthy Pets podcast. So I'm sorry that you all haven't heard everything that we're doing during the breaks, but it's just it's getting better. So what I did discover while we were on break is that Dr. Lisa has written a book, and I mean, we're talking Amazing Integrative Medicine in Veterinary Practice. So this is for the entire veterinary team. But I guarantee you that we have some of those 2.0 pet parents who are going to be all over this. And we actually have a code IVM24 for 20% off. That'll be in the show notes. But how'd that happen? Why did you write a book? And what tell us what the book's about?
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 38:30
So the book is an introduction for the entire veterinary team into 10 different integrative modalities, and it's written in the beginning. Tells you about the modality, and there's parts that are geared towards the practice manager and receptionist or CCS or whatever your acronym is, and the assistants and the technicians, and then veterinary specific information, and then it tells you where you can get trained, and then it goes into from a practice standpoint what your realistic ROI or return on investment would be, how much it would cost the clinic to get the practice started, the supplies you would need, and then it has an online resource that provides training programs for the staff as well as client education videos and client handouts. And there's a training checklist for your staff too, so you can get started. It's just a little light reading.
Dr. Judy Morgan 39:31
A little, a little bit of light reading that took you how many years to write?
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 39:34
Five.
Dr. Judy Morgan 39:35
Five years of your life.
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 39:36
My kid's eight and a half.
Dr. Judy Morgan 39:37
Your kid's eight and a half. So he knows no time upon which I was not writing it.
Dr. Judy Morgan 39:42
Poor thing. And so, why did you decide you wanted to write this book?
Vetsplaining 39:47
Well, at the time, I had a podcast, Vetsplaining, and I had interviewed a veterinarian from AAHA, and later they were spitballing. Ideas for textbooks through AAHA, and they were interested in acupuncture, and it was, I guess, one of those, you know who you know, and I happen to be the only integrative veterinarian I think that anyone in the room knew, and so my name came up, and then I got a call asking if I wanted to write a book, and I said what no, and then I started it, and then AAHA was not able to publish it. So then the wonderful people at Wiley are the ones who published it, and it it took a long time, and and because in there it talks, it takes into account like the cost of travel and the cost of running a car and the whole for as far as expenses for training and then every year I would have to redo it and then COVID happened and then the price of rental cars went up and then so I was I'm I'm glad I did it. It was a great experience. It was like hazing. It was a good experience. I don't know that I feel the need to do it again, but at least I feel like I left a little bit of myself in the field of veterinary medicine. a lot of myself.
Dr. Judy Morgan 41:12
So I got to look through the book, and I think it's an awesome resource, particularly for you know the younger practitioner, or you know, if if you're doing this in your practice and you want your staff to have a resource, it's a great one. But for the younger practitioner who's like, "Do I want to do this? I think it's a great resource. But I'm also going to throw it out there that so I have some of my supporters and followers that have been following me for a long time, who are really into TCVM, and they have actually bought Dr. Shea's veterinary books from Chi University because that's the level of knowledge that people are looking for. So I will tell you, this is not just a book for the veterinary team. This is a book for other people who might want that background knowledge. So we have a lot of trainers, and this is one of the things that I found really cool. The very first person who invited me to be a speaker, and I mean, I love public speaking, and I did it a lot growing up in high school and in 4-H and having to do it. But when I was in veterinary practice, I wasn't really being a public speaker, and I got a phone call from a client who was a dog trainer, and she said, "I'm holding a big event, and I want you to be the speaker. And I was like, "Huh, we can do that, okay? And she said, "Yeah, I want you to talk about food therapy and food energetics, and so I'm thinking, "Oh, this is a veterinary thing, and she wants me to teach this to you know people with dogs in training and how this is impactful for them and how it could change their their dog's life in general. So I was like, "Oh, that sounds really cool, and she goes, "How much will you charge for that? And I'm like, "You know, it's like a three-hour deal, and I'm like, "I don't know, 50 bucks. And she burst out laughing, and I was like, "What? And she said, "Okay, you really have no idea what you're doing and how to charge for this. I'm like, "Okay, and she says, "Okay, I'm going to pay you $1,000 for the three hours, and I kind of went, "Oh, this is cool! I have a new sideline. I think I'm gonna like this. This is before I'd written the book, you know. It was just like, "All right, I'm just doing my thing, and so you never know who that person is gonna be. For me, it was a dog trainer, and then I mean, she had me speak every year for quite a while, then I started doing pet expos, and then I started talking to veterinary groups, and then getting you know bigger speaking things, and it is amazing what what we would think is the average pet parent. It's amazing the amount of knowledge they want to suck up.
Dr. Lisa McFaddin g 43:57
Yeah, and I actually have a fair number of clients who have purchased the book and they like it because the at least the first half of the chapter is devoted to explaining the treatment and the modality. So even if they've never thought about regenerative medicine or they've never thought about ozone therapy, there's at least kind of a an introduction to it, and then because of all the references, they can then see where to learn more about it
Dr. Judy Morgan 44:30
So, in the practice, are you doing regenerative medicine and ozone and those kinds of things as well?
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 44:35
I am not. The practice where I worked before, one of the doctors there did ozone therapy and regenerative medicine? I find fascinating, but no, I don't have the equipment to do it
Dr Judy Morgan 44:48
I did stem cell and PRP.
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 44:52
I'd love to.
Dr. Judy Morgan 44:53
And we did prolotherapy And then you know what? It the it's not that bad. Like the learning curve. Yeah, you have to be able to find the joints to inject them. That's that's basically what it is, but the results are pretty amazing. But I mean, you have so many tools in your toolbox, including spoons.
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 45:15
Yeah, that'll be the next book. It's just yes, all about spoons.
Dr. Judy Morgan 45:18
Yeah. So, and we just decided during the break that she's now needing to market her own fascial scrapers and spoons. So, you know, I'm I'm thinking, you know, if you're telling your clients to go home and buy a spoon, I think you should you should provide them with the perfect spoon.
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 45:34
I could call it the perfect spoon. I mean, that would be pretty good. I mean, picture my face in the center.
Dr. Judy Morgan 45:40
I love. love it. We're gonna have to come up with some. Everybody, you can in the comments. You can write down what she should call her spoon. I mean, her name is McFaddin. It could be the McSpoon. I don't know if she would get in trouble for that one or not. But I'm thinking I like the perfect spoon. I don't. I'm thinking we could come up with something.
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 46:00
I had a client who her dog did agility. He was an amazing dog, and he did agility until he was 12, and then unfortunately had cancer and passed. But he went from not being able to perform very well to just doing amazing. And so she and I would joke that we were going to get a shirt that said "Body by McFaddin, and then he was gonna wear it when he competed.
Dr. Judy Morgan 46:25
There you go. I like that.
Dr. Lisa McFaddin
So I'll have that on my imaginary online store as well.
Dr. Judy Morgan 46:31
we're coming up with it. You know, you you're young. Your career is is just really blossoming right here and now. So you can all put in the comments what you think she should do next? Actually, what I think is we we really need videos on the spooning and the fascial plane Scraping. Thank you. See, I've already messed it up. So, but I, you know, I think especially since it is something that clients can utilize at home. Are there a lot of how? How did you get into the spoon thing?
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 47:06
When I did my rehab training at Healing Oasis with Dr. Pedro Rivera, he introduced us to the spoon.
Dr Judy Morgan 47:18
And see, I've I've talked to so many people who have been educated there. I've never heard anybody talk about that.
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 47:23
Well, and when I the very first day of the course, and they talked about what do you need to practice rehab, and so I raised my hand because I was that person that was like, hey, and I said your brain and your hands, and then one of the instructors said and a spoon, and I thought, well, I could not have heard her correctly. And then I turned around, and she, sure enough, was holding a miso soup spoon. And it-I gotta say, I was real, real suspicious of it. But
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 47:56
Yeah, no, it-it's amazing. And I had an assistant that he-he one time. time described it as while she's doing things they may not like in the back, I'm doing the fun things in the front, and I thought, well, we might need a better marketing tactic. But he really liked it. He had his own golden spoon, so you don't have to get a golden one. Although that could be the 20th anniversary spoon,
Dr. Judy Morgan 48:21
The golden spoon. I mean, come on. There's there's so many marketing ideas here. I just I love it.
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 48:25
I mean, my memoir could be a girl and a spoon.
Dr. Judy Morgan 48:30
Man, this derailed really fast, and it's really fun. Okay, so we've got all these things that people can do at home, and I don't know if we can get this in in the last few minutes, but let's talk trigger points a little bit. What the heck is it? How do you find them, and what do you do with them?
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 48:48
So trigger points are basically muscle knots. So they're areas of the muscle that are hard, and I like to think of them as areas of the muscle that have formed a mutiny, and they create their own. Yeah, they create their own self-perpetuating cycle of being angry and chronically contracted, and they cause pain locally, and they can cause pain in other areas. And people, the most common example would be if you have them up here in your neck, it can refer up to your head, and so it can contribute to tension headaches. And as another derail, I firmly believe that dogs get headaches. We just
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 49:29
Yeah 100% And I just fell in love with the idea that we can help so many patients by manipulating and working with these trigger points because they not only affect your musculoskeletal system but they also have an effect on your autonomic nervous system. So like your fight or flight, rest and digest. And for instance, in people too, we can get trigger points in our pecs. And so if you think about. Everybody that has a desk job, right? You're bent over, you're typing, and when you get trigger points in your pecs, when they are really active, it can cause changes in your heart rate. It can cause changes in your blood pressure, and so people will think they're having a heart attack, or you know something is happening, and it's actually really their muscles are In a knot, yeah. And so there's a lot that you can do. Spooning actually can help because it helps release the fascia, and the fascia is what covers the muscle. And if you have good blood flow to the muscle, you have happy muscles. And there are other things you can do at home as an owner, like skin rolling, or even like friction rubs, and that can help improve the blood flow to the muscle, which then will help reduce the angryness of the trigger point.
Dr. Judy Morgan 50:57
And angry trigger points are just no fun. Having had a few over the years, yeah, they're they're pretty miserable. Yes, and and I totally agree with you on that headache thing with our dogs. So I happen to have a four year old cavalier who's only 10 pounds because he was the runt. He has a huge jing deficiency, and he's hydrocephalic, and he has bad teeth, and his joints bend the wrong way, and his hearing's messed up. Yeah, he's the true 100% jing deficiency, but he will not allow you to touch his head. And God forbid somebody wants to pet him on the head. And because I have Cavaliers and English toy spaniels, everybody has syringomalia, caudal occipital malformation syndrome, and then some degree of hydrocephalus, particularly if they're the bubble-headed little guys. And so we used to take a lot of our dogs with us to these expos, and you know we'd be tabling at a festival or whatever, and everybody wants to come up. They're cute little dogs, you know. Everybody wants to come up and pat them on the head and pat them on the head. And my dogs are just the sweetest dogs in the world. But about the 10th person who wants to pet them on the head, you hear this low, and I'm like, yeah, they're done. Like we've got enough of a headache that. So I I would agree with that 100% and you know because I live with a breed where they all have head issues, I see it on a daily basis, and I I think that's one of those where you know if your if your dog is or your cat is kind of shying away, I don't want to be petted on top of the head. There's a reason for that, and we should honor that.
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 52:42
And those are the dogs that usually, when I I was gonna demo and then forgot that they were fake. They're really well behaved. I know they are. Where I'll actually instead of petting them, I start gently massaging their masseters, so their cheek muscles, or right under their jaw, their digastragus, so the muscles of chewing, and or if you approach them and you almost like looks like a little Vulcan death grip, but you're doing the top of their head. Most of them just melt because those those muscles are just so tight.
Dr. Judy Morgan 53:19
I would agree with that, and I did an interview with a person who has a rescue for hydrocephalic French bulldogs, which
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 53:28
is a very specific rescue.
Dr. Judy Morgan 53:30
It is very specific, but there's a lot of them because they're bubblehead. Oh yeah, there's a lot of them, and they're a little odd, and so they all end up in rescue. And so I was on the interview. I was saying, especially for the first three years, three and a half years of my little guy's life, I had to hand feed him, and I had to actually take the food and place it in his mouth in order for him to eat. And she said, "Oh, we have that problem with all the hydrocephalic Frenchies because their TMJs hurt, and so what you're talking about, like all these muscles are tight, everything hurts, and so they won't chew anything hard. So you know he's got bad teeth, and there's no way he's gonna chew bones or chew anything hard because it's just painful for him. So we ended up. I had a communicator who offered a free session for my animals, and so I said, "All right, we're going to talk to Forrest, the little guy. And I said, "Why does Forest make me hand feed him every meal? And she grabbed the side of her jaw and she said, "Oh my God, that hurts! And I said, "What hurts? Well, they're spaniels with long ears. They wear snoods. They wear the little covers to keep their ears out of their food. And she said, "There's something on his head, and it really hurts, and it actually makes him feel nauseous. And she's like, "I'm getting nauseous. Feel again. And I went, "Pooh, he doesn't like his snood. And so I said, "All right, great. His ears can drip in His food. We'll see what happens. He's the best eater I have. He's so fast. He eats so fast. So head pain, absolutely. And so I've got a little guy that really needs to keep his ears out of his food. For a while, we were doing a man bun with a a little hairband. Yeah, he looked really cute, but he didn't really like that either. And he eats much better if he doesn't have any of that pressure on his head, so I think head pressure is a big deal, and headaches are a big deal for a lot of our pets. We're out of time, so Integrative Medicine in Veterinary Practice. Lisa McFaddin. We will have a link to this in the show notes. I'm actually going to get one of these because this looks really cool, and I think it's something that could be useful for pet parents, but it might also be something if you have a veterinarian that you really like, and you'd like to have them start to dabble, and they show any interest at all, buy them a gift, drop it off, and say, "Here you go, I made it simple for you. We like to make it easy for them to learn these things because we're trying to transform the veterinary world and have a lot more of us holistic or integrated people would be an awesome thing.
Dr. Lisa McFaddin 56:09
Yeah, transforming the world one spoon at a time.
Dr. Judy Morgan 56:12
One spoon at a time. I love it. There's your tagline. Full circle. Full circle. I love it. Well done. Thank you for being my guest today. It's been very enjoyable.
OUTRO/DISCLAIMER
The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. It is no substitute for professional care by a veterinarian, licensed nutritionist or other qualified professional. You're encouraged to do your own research, and should not rely on this information as professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. Dr Judy and her guests express their own views, experience and conclusions. Dr Judy Morgan's Naturally Healthy Pets neither endorses or opposes any particular view discussed here.
