Dr. Judy Morgan 0:00
Hello pet parents, welcome to the Naturally Healthy Pets Podcast where we empower and educate you to be the best advocate for your pets, giving them a happier, healthier life. Are you confused about all the overwhelming information out there about your pet's health, nutrition and overall wellness? Well you're in the right place! I'm your host, Dr. Judy Morgan, an integrative veterinarian, author and speaker. Join me for an exciting show where you'll discover the healthy options for raising your pets in a more holistic manner. Find out the answers to your questions during the short and succinct episodes where I chat with experts in the industry and showcase the latest products that will help your pet stay naturally healthy. So let's get to it. My topic today is Why Gut Health May be the Missing Link to Achieving Optimal Health. And my guest today is Dr. Katie Woodley. She's a good friend and an expert, holistic veterinarian and founder of the Natural Pet doctor. She's passionate about integrating eastern and western medicine to help pets achieve optimal health and vibrancy. Sounds familiar? That might be why we get along. She is concerned about treating the root cause rather than just the symptoms by using nutrition, acupuncture and herbal medicine, Dr. Katie provides mentorship and holistic pet guidance and support to pet parents and pet professionals across the world with her online programs. She wants to help break down barriers for those without access to a holistic veterinarian, and provide hope again, that there are ways to help pets thrive naturally. Katie, thank you so much for agreeing to come speak with us today.
Dr. Katie Woodley 1:37
Thanks so much for having me, Judy. I'm excited to be here.
Dr. Judy Morgan 1:41
Well, and somehow I think we originally met because you were the lead on a gut health summit. And I don't know whether you got chosen for that. Because gut health was like your this is my my gig. Or if gut health has become your gig because of that. But whenever someone is sending me emails or asking questions about gut health, and they want help, my first thought is, I'm gonna send him to Dr. Katie.
Dr. Katie Woodley 2:11
You know, it's ironic, because when I first started, it wasn't like, my my gig. But however, the reason I found holistic medicine is because my husband developed inflammatory bowel disease years ago. And so that was like the wake up call, like conventional medicine has severe limitations for healing the body and finding the root cause. And so it's something that has been a huge mission and passion of mine. And, you know, once again, as we as you also know, gut health is such a key component to a lot of these health conditions and the symptoms we see in our patients. And it's missed all the time. It's not even thought about, and that needs to change. So hopefully, we'll be able to change some of that today. Yeah, it
Dr. Judy Morgan 2:53
Yeah it does. Because of what I see, I see it on social media, I see it in messages and emails, people are just throwing things at a problem without trying to get to the root of the problem. And so one of the things we're going to talk about today is a supplement graveyard. But to start off with, what, what does it mean, to talk about gut health? What is gut health?
Dr. Katie Woodley 3:17
Yeah, you know, I think most people when they think about the gut, it's like digestion, right? We eat something, and then hopefully, we produce some poop at the end. And hopefully, we absorbed some nutrients. And it's so much more than that. And this is why it's so connected to all these other symptoms and conditions. And when we think about gut health, yes, absorption, digestion, these are key components. And a lot of times, the pets are lacking in those areas, and they're not truly digesting and absorbing the nutrients out of their food. And we'll talk more about the food to being a huge key to making sure that we're getting the right nutrients. However, it's all about the immune system and the connection to the brain through the gut brain access, and then also too that skin, gut access also. And when we think about the immune system, it's so intimately connected with that gut lining, we know that at least 70% of the immune system is involved with the gut. And if we have any inflammation or things are not working well, then it can aggravate the immune system, and it can show up as these chronic health problems that so many pet parents are dealing with. But the other key thing too, is that microbiome, and this is a huge area of research now, and there's a lot more research being done. There's a lot of great companies that have come out to make it easier to test for the health status of the microbiome. But this is where those trillions of different types of micro organisms, fungi, bacteria, protozoa make up this microbiome in the gut itself. And if we don't have the diversity, if we're lacking specific strains, they're not producing the right short chain fatty acids and metabolites that will directly impact the immune system. It'll affect the gut lining, lead to like chronic inflammation, and this is where we need to be looking to truly optimize our pet's health.
Dr. Judy Morgan 5:02
Absolutely. And it's really interesting how things have evolved. I I graduated 38 years ago. So it's a long time. But when I took immunology, we talked about lymphocytes and lymph nodes and the lymphatic system. And we really didn't know anything about the role, or very little about the role that those bacteria that are in the gut play in the immune system. And we we certainly never talked about the gut brain access or the gut skin access. And it's impossible now to talk about gut health as a single solitary unit. And that's what's so cool about holistic medicine, because we don't look at Oh, look, he's got diarrhea, and that's the only thing going on. We know that if we have an animal that has chronic diarrhea, they're not absorbing their nutrients, they probably have some anxiety, they may have some coat issues, they may have chronic infections, there's so much more that is related to that now that it's it's really kind of gone its own direction at this point.
Dr. Katie Woodley 6:10
Yeah, yup.
Dr. Judy Morgan 6:12
So how would How would somebody know if their pets gut health... And obviously, if they've got vomiting or diarrhea, they would say, Oh, well, you know, something might not be right there. What other things should they look for? What other symptoms are we seeing with these animals that have a big imbalance in their in their gut health?
Dr. Katie Woodley 6:31
Yeah, you know, especially what you just mentioned, obviously, if we're seeing symptoms of the gut, vomiting, diarrhea, cats vomiting is not normal, it's common, it's not normal, I find that one all the time. Also, you know, if they're burping a lot, they're gassy. If we have any acid reflux, or licking their lips, excessively, extending their neck doing that prey stance, those are commonly missed. And those are actually a big sign that the gut health is off in your pets. But the things that go missed those chronic ear infections, the anal gland issues licking the paws excessively, the recurring hotspots and skin issues, the itchiness, the behavior issues. So if you have a pet that all of a sudden is acting hyper reactive, or they're becoming more noise phobic with thunderstorms, they're harder to train, yes, behavior we need, there's a lot of training that needs to come from that. But we also need to look at the gut, and what's going on, especially with the microbiome, and is their inflammation present, because if we only focus on giving them a drug, you know, like an anxiety medication, it's not really going to adjust things. And same with like apoquel and cytopoint, you know, the two drugs that are handed out like candy, and cause so many other immune system dysregulations down the road. And it did nothing, nothing to treat the root imbalance other than potentially set your your pet up to get cancer or other health problems down the road. And so if you're seeing your pets experiencing those symptoms, and you're going back and forth to the vet clinic over and over for the same problem, and the gut has not been mentioned by your vet, you need to ask them about gut health?
Dr. Judy Morgan 8:06
You know, it's really interesting, because I find that one of the big differences between traditional medicine and holistic medicine is traditional medicine with things like the cytopoint injections and the apoquel that you mentioned, they're really trying to just put out the fire and treat the symptoms, they're not getting to the root cause they're not treating the underlying problem. And that's why it becomes this vicious repeat cycle. They never get off the apoquel, they never get off the cytopoint. And at some point, all of that quits working because we haven't addressed the root cause, which many times is the gut health. And it just keeps getting worse and worse. Because when we're throwing those immune suppressant drugs on we're actually making the root cause worse.
Dr. Katie Woodley 8:51
Yeah, I find too, one one of the issues that is a huge issue is the diarrhea and the treatment with metronidazole or Flagyl. It's like, yes, the diarrhea went away. But two weeks later, we have rebound diarrhea, and now we have a clostridial or E coli overgrowth. And we just made so many things so much worse. And it's like, yes, there's other ways to treat that. And that'll be some of the supplements that we talk about, and just food choices that can alleviate, especially acute diarrhea or even some chronic diarrhea cases, because metronidazole is not the cure, and it is not the safest drug out there. You know, and I think a lot of vets once again, just like apoquel, and cytopoint we've got this dog that has diarrhea, we need fast results. What can I use? metronidazole, right, because they know it takes care of the symptom right away and it gets them out of their hair for a little bit so they can move on to the next pet. And unfortunately, it's it's doing a huge disservice to that pet long term, especially where how much it truly affects the gut health in the long term.
Dr. Judy Morgan 9:53
Absolutely. I had a case yesterday the dog had diarrhea for six weeks. Two different veterinarians gave rounds of metronidazole. And the dog got no better on the metronidazole. Because metronidazole was not what the dog needs. And the dog also has horrible anxiety. There are six weeks of diarrhea. Now we've given a drug that has made the microbiome even more imbalanced. And the anxiety is getting worse and worse. And it's no shock. The dog is also now starting to chew on its paws and lose hair. And it's just this cascade of events that just keeps getting worse because the root cause has never been addressed. So give us some common reasons that the gut health is disrupted. I mean, metronidazole obviously, because that is an antibiotic. It's an anti parasitic, it's an anti inflammatory, and it does have its place. But it is not something that should be handed out every time a pet has diarrhea. What other things cause all these imbalances that we're seeing in the gut health?
Dr. Katie Woodley 11:03
Yeah, you know, I think the number one reason is like a poor quality diet. So for feeding highly processed foods, so aka kibble right. You know, it's high carb, or pets don't need carbohydrates, it's going to feed the wrong type of bacteria that our pet should have in that microbiome, and it's going to create that dysbiosis or imbalance of good versus bad bacteria over the long term. It's also not super high in nutrients, right? Yeah, it's balanced for the long term, right, according to them. However, it's really hard to digest and absorb. And it's synthetic vitamins and minerals, we know that those aren't as well absorbed in the body. And two, it affects the pH of the stomach for the processing of kibble versus say like a raw food diet, which is going to affect digestive enzymes, how well that food is broken down and absorbed into vitamins and minerals. So I think that's that is a huge component there. The other component too is we live in a toxic world, we know that there's been 85,000 Toxins made over the past, you know, years, and we're constantly being bombarded by glyphosate, pesticides, herbicides, heavy metals, you know, plastics, things like this, these invisible toxins that we don't really understand. And like how big of a part that plays and a lot of these chemicals, they're high concentrations, and especially like kibble diets. So for glyphosate, we know pets on kibble diets, through, you know, studies that have been done through HRI Labs, they're much higher in glyphosate and glyphosate specifically targets the specific mechanisms that the microbes need to survive by. So it's actually essentially killing them, it acts like kind of like an antibiotic in the body. And these toxins, were just not addressing them, our pets, unfortunately, their detox pathways aren't optimized. We're being bombarded by all these chemicals and toxins, flea and tick medications, vaccinations, like all the preventative care, things that, you know, pet parents are doing their best because they just don't understand or they're not being properly told the side effects of these drugs. And our pets bodies can't get rid of these. And we see side effects from that. So toxins play a huge part. And then I think, especially in the past few years stress, the emotional health component. We know from numerous research articles, that stress can create leaky gut, it can create inflammation in the gut lining directly. And so for finding ourselves running around crazy, or we're super stressed out, our pets are sitting right there absorbing it. And they're like Mom, Dad, it's okay. Right? They're absorbing the stress, like it's okay, I'll take care of you. And they're getting stressed. And it's directly impacting gut health. So if I had to pick three Top Common reasons, it would be those categories, which the good thing about that is we can do something about that once we know better, we can do better, right?
Dr. Judy Morgan 13:49
Absolutely. So I mean, I'm just a huge proponent of whole food diets. And I get a little bit crazy when I see recipes being made using a lot of synthetic supplements when I see pet food that has a lot of synthetic ingredients added in. And certainly I'm not a fan of highly processed food that's been what I call dead food. It's been cooked at high heat multiple times. And then sprayed with fats to make it taste like something other than a brown dead ball of goo.
Dr. Katie Woodley 14:26
I think by the way, people should know animals do not eat that kibble straight off the production line so that you said that spray...
Dr. Judy Morgan 14:34
It's so true. It is devoid of taste it is devoid of nutrients cardboard, it literally has everything added back in and it's sprayed with a palatant to make it acceptable to eat. I still don't think it's acceptable to eat but so it's very true that the unfortunately our pets six decades ago, they were on farms they were eating leftovers from the from the farms and the human meals. We actually fed our pets a lot better. And the convenience of this processed pet food has brought about, and we see the same thing in humans too, the convenience of processed food has totally changed the health of all populations, human and animal.
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Dr. Judy Morgan 16:17
So what food well, obviously, we want Whole Foods. So I'm a huge fan of raw but I don't have a problem with gently cooked. So what if someone has an animal that has, let's just say like, kind of like your husband, they have they, they've got IBD. They've got chronic allergies, they've got all these things going on? And like my little case yesterday with the dog that's had diarrhea for six weeks, and nothing is making this dog better. Where do you tell people to start?
Dr. Katie Woodley 16:49
Yeah, this is a great question. And you know, there can't I have plenty of clients that will switch 100%, especially if they are feeding a kibble diet and just cold turkey it over to, you know, fresh food diet, whether it's lightly cooked, I kind of advocate lightly cooked, then moving to raw food just because the microbiome needs to adjust. And a lot of times it can be much harder on that system to digest the food. And I don't want people to end up in the ER with diarrhea, things like that. Now it can be done. And there are plenty of people that have zero issues. So I always look at what is that pet parent most comfortable with. And if they're terrified of changing diet, do a slow transition. There's no problem there. But we need to be looking at how do we get off of this processed food diet that's most likely contributing or have and or created the problem in the first place. So that way we can start feeding the body, the nutrients, real nutrients that it needs, and also support a healthy microbiome. So when I look at how do I support that transition process, a lot of times I'm adding in a good like prebiotic probiotic supplement with digestive enzymes. So that way, the pet can also help break down that food. There's a lot of great brands out there. I know you carry a lot of great brands in your store, which is fantastic. You know RX Vitamins is a great easy brand for a lot of people in the US, which you can use to help with that transition to alleviate some of the concerns or worries and make it easier for that pet to digest the food. Now, prebiotics, just to define the term. Those prebiotics are the food source for the beneficial bacteria. So in a lot of the supplements you'll see things like FOS, MOS and inulin, your larger Rabideau galectin. Those are the food source. So we want to be feeding the good bacteria or the probiotics if you are adding that. If we've specifically let's say like the IBD patient, we know that there is a dysbiosis most likely present if we haven't tested this is where beneficial probiotics like saccharomyces boulardii can be really, really helpful, especially if we are dealing with diarrhea. There's a lot of research articles that show it works better than metronidazole for helping to address diarrhea. It also helps modulate that immune system that's in the gut. So using Saccharomyces you know using a human product is a great option. And most people can access that from a human health food store and starting that and then that way you're supporting you're changing over the diet to a fresh food diet that works the best for you. But I always typically start with like adding some supplements in at the start seeing how they do and then transitioning the diet to a more fresh food option. That's typically the first step of my process.
Dr. Judy Morgan 19:31
Yeah, I absolutely love that. And I I agree. For some pets, we can do that. That quick change. I think that going from a kibble for a pet that has been completely on kibble going to gently cooked sometimes does make the transition a little easier even though I'm a huge fan of raw feeding. A lot of my rescues that I brought in first of all they don't recognize raw food as food because the texture is so different From a kibble product, so sometimes you would think that a dog would say, wow, look at that a big chunk of meat and a lot of them are like, I don't even know what that is. I don't know what to do with it. So it can be a little frustrating. I have had a couple of dogs that I literally have had to hand feed throughout their life. Yeah. So it's just depends on the individual pets.
Dr. Katie Woodley 20:22
Like cats, right? Getting cats transitioned. It's, this is why, if you can never start your cat on kibble, please don't like it is not worth it. You know, kibble is adapted to them. It is yeah, it is so addictive. And it's so hard to transition them. I mean, we still we use at least a freeze dried raw for our senior rescue cat. But oh my gosh, you know, she looks at like the raw food that we feed the other two, like it's completely foreign.
Dr. Judy Morgan 20:51
They just don't know what to do with it. My hardest one. When I first switched my animals over to raw, my oldest cat at the time, it took six months to get her to completely transition. And then she still really preferred the freeze dried over the frozen fresh food. She just said that texture is not quite there for me. So for for people with kitty cats, it can be a long process, but definitely stick with it. And it is worth it in the long run. So tell us about your better gut health program.
Dr. Katie Woodley 21:24
Yeah, so what this is, it's actually a six week intensive program, where we take people through, essentially empowering them to understand why things go wrong, and how everything is interconnected in the body. And so learning the physiology that gut brain connection, how to really, truly support detox pathways. So I follow what's called like a 5R framework, where we're really looking at and assessing our environments, the foods, we're feeding treats, we're removing inflammatory foods, ingredients, things that could potentially be harming that microbiome, creating more inflammation in the body. And then really resolving it through using whole food, food therapy principles, you know, really utilizing food as medicine to heal that microbiome, calm down and quell that inflammation that's occurring, and then rebalance the body and get them back into what we call homeostasis. So there's a lot of tools and guides in terms of how to use food therapy and create balanced recipes, whether you want to use lightly cooked, whether you want to use raw food diets. And then of course, there's weekly q&a with myself. And there's a private community where you can ask questions and get further support and guidance, because a lot of these pets coming into the program have had chronic health issues. You know, as you know, Judy, like most people find us when they've tried all the other things on conventional medicine, right. And a lot of times, you're the fifth, sixth opinion, because they're not getting results, and they're spending 1000s of dollars on their pet's care, and it's not working. And so this is a really deep dive intensive to really, really make people confident again, and regain that hope that there are options, and there are ways to heal the body without relying on pharmaceuticals, and integrating it into the conventional system and understanding, you know, what, where, why we're starting and healing them?
Dr. Judy Morgan 23:13
Which is amazing. Do you find that most pet parents that come into this program to help heal their animal with a problem? Do you find that most of them at the end of the six weeks have made progress with with what's going on with their pets gut health?
Dr. Katie Woodley 23:28
Yes, I find the people that show up and ask questions and do the work right, just like anything. Definitely 100% It's been really neat to see the testimonials come through with what we're doing. And it's essentially like diving deep together, and being able to ask those questions and get support. And then also understanding because I find so many people and the same with vets, right. This is how I was years ago, I didn't understand anything. You know, I was like I had no idea what the toxins were doing, what the pesticides that were being sprayed, and you know, being able to analyze your environment and also having tools to help calm your emotional health and the stress also, and being able to utilize certain exercises with your pets makes a huge difference. So not only are we kind of like helping the pet parent, you know, alongside healing the pet, so it's, you know, it's an all inclusive, it's truly like a holistic program, right? It's not just about the pet, it's about everyone involved, the environment, the ecosystem and the whole.
Dr. Judy Morgan 24:28
And I think you have to address the whole because if you don't if you leave out any piece of that you're not going to have results that are as powerful. Yeah, and the I love the stress component because it is so true that our pets take on what is around them. So if there is a lot of stress in the household or if you know the parent has a lot of stress for whatever reason. It is definitely going to show up And so from Chinese medicine perspective, we see things like Shen disturbances and liver Qi stagnation and all these frustrations that get stored up in the body. And they show up in different ways. So I think that's really critical. And I love that you give exercises to do with the person. That's, that's pretty cool. And who wouldn't want a holistic veterinarian who is really focused on gut health to hold their hand for a full six weeks with a meeting every week? That takes a lot of commitment on your part. And so I applaud you for being willing to do that. Talk about the supplement graveyard?
Dr. Katie Woodley 25:36
Yes, I love that very all been there, right. I mean, it's one of those things where we're, we learned there's so much information out there now, which is great. You know, social media is really helpful for for majority of things. So you learn something new, you want to implement it, you hear about how something worked for someone, Sally says this worked for her dog, Bob, and she wants to buy it and try it right. But then it doesn't work because we didn't understand why we were using it and how it truly works, and how it truly fits into that pets, hair, and what was actually the root imbalance. And so they try it for a few weeks, hoping it works, hoping the symptoms go away doesn't work, it goes in the cabinet. Next supplement comes in, we try it for a few days, maybe the dog or cat gets worse goes in the cabinet. And all of a sudden, now we have 30 or more supplements in the cabinet. So I call that the supplement graveyard because I find so many pet parents are trying to do their best with all the information that's out there and navigate that space, but they end up wasting hundreds 1000s of dollars, you know, on the supplements, and they're just not sure how to use them when they would use them. And you know it, there's a better way forward. That's why I love the content that you have and all the LIVES that you do. And the interviews you do to give people like plans and like the books that you have too are very powerful for that. And being able to give people those tools like this is when you would use this, this is how you use this, you know, not just because everything is good, you should add it all in and all of a sudden we have a bowl full of supplements and your dog's not eating anymore. So you know, I think it's one of those things, I really hope that people this in the new year really take a step back and go Why am I using that? How is this related? Not really sure, let me do a little bit more research or, you know, join Dr. Judy's group, you know, join a program, learn a bit more get guidance on this. So you stop wasting money, stop the frustration, the worry of watching your pet not get better get worse going back and forth to the vet clinic for the same problems, because there is a path forward. But we just have to change the way we do it, which is a little uncomfortable, right? So that'd be kind of my hope for a lot of the pet parents listening to this in the new year is just critically think about why are we using this? What are we using for and take a step back before you know buying the next supplement and hoping it works.
Dr. Judy Morgan 27:54
I totally agree. When I was in practice, I used to have people come in for a new consultation and they literally would bring three huge grocery bags full of supplements and I would go through them and say, well 15 of these are all the same thing. You're you're giving the same thing over and over and over hoping for a different result. And so sometimes it was fun just to kind of go through the bag and go yep, don't use that. Don't use that as horrible ingredients that doesn't have anything to do with what we're to anyway.
Dr. Katie Woodley 28:20
I know it's refreshing. I actually find it really refreshing when when I get patients that haven't tried anything. I'm like, oh my god, I love you. You just made this so much easier, right?
Dr. Judy Morgan 28:31
So much easier, but don't know how to eliminate a bunch of things. Dr. Katie, you are just always fun. I love having conversations with you. So for anyone interested in more information, Her website is theNaturalPetdoctor.com and Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, the Natural Pet doctor, she made it really easy to find her. Love it. Thank you so much Katie.
Dr. Katie Woodley 28:53
Yeah. Thanks for having made Judy. It's been a pleasure.
Dr. Judy Morgan 28:57
Thanks for listening to another great Naturally Healthy Pets episode. Be sure to check out the show notes for some helpful links. And if you enjoy the show, please be sure to follow and listen for free on your favorite podcast app. We value your feedback and we'd love to hear from you on how we're doing. Visit DrJudyMorgan.com for healthy product recommendations, comprehensive courses, upcoming events and other fantastic resources. Until next time, keep giving your pet the vibrant life they deserve.
Disclaimer 29:25
The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. It is no substitute for professional care by a veterinarian, licensed nutritionist or other qualified professional. You're encouraged to do your own research and should not rely on this information as professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. Dr. Judy and her guests express their own views, experience and conclusions. Dr. Judy Morgan's Naturally Healthy Pets neither endorses or opposes any particular view discussed here.
