Dr. Judy Morgan 0:00
For anybody who has any doubts about how intelligent and smart and wonderful these ladies are, that explanation goes way above, hey, we're just selling coconut oil. They understand what the science is behind the product. Hello pet parents, welcome to the Naturally Healthy Pets Podcast where we empower and educate you to be the best advocate for your pets, giving them a happier, healthier life. Are you confused about all the overwhelming information out there about your pet's health, nutrition and overall wellness? Well you're in the right place! I'm your host, Dr. Judy Morgan, an integrative veterinarian, author and speaker. Join me for an exciting show where you'll discover the healthy options for raising your pets in a more holistic manner. Find out the answers to your questions during the short and succinct episodes where I chat with experts in the industry and showcase the latest products that will help your pet stay naturally healthy. So let's get to it. Welcome to our show today, I'm really excited to have good friends Charisa Antigua and Carmina O'Connor, the owners of CocoTherapy with me today. These two ladies are brilliant. They are always dressed impeccably and they rock four inch heels. I cannot do that. So maybe next time we're together, you can give me lessons how to walk in anything more than a half inch heel because I just fall down. But these ladies have been around coconuts their entire lives because their family has been growing coconuts and making coconut oil for three generations on their family farm in the Philippines. Both sisters have degrees in Bachelor's in biology and received their certification in companion animal nutrition from the University of Illinois. Animal lovers their entire lives, they grew up on a farm with dogs, cats, birds and farm animals. Ladies, thank you so much for agreeing to be on my show today.
Charisa and Carmina 2:01
Thank you for having us.
Dr. Judy Morgan 2:04
So I think I met you two at a veterinary conference the first time we crossed paths. And I saw this big booth advertising coconut oil for animals. And I said, Oh, what's this about? Like, I have never used coconut oil for animals, I have no idea what the benefits are. And we ended up talking for probably a good 45 minutes. And I was so blown away by your knowledge that I remember saying to whoever was with me, we have to go back and talk to them some more. And I think we came back the next day and literally monopolized your time for another hour, hour and a half.
Charisa and Carmina 2:50
I loved that. It was great.
Dr. Judy Morgan 2:53
So and I was a nobody then. Nobody knew who I was. So the fact that you were willing to spend that much time teaching me and I think we were doing some filming. And we filmed you talking about it. So if we were doing filming, it was probably at the HAVMA down in Augusta. But I am I really am blown away by the benefits of coconuts, coconut oil and all the the ways that you have found to use them to help our pets. So one of the things I want to absolutely address today is there's a big controversy about coconut oil and whether it's healthy for humans, as well as our pets. And there are people on both sides of the fence. It's amazing, you can find so much controversy over something so simple as coconut oil. But I remember it was one of the big huge New York newspapers and I don't remember which one years ago, was talking about how horrible eating coconut oil is for people and it blocks our arteries and causes heart disease and all this stuff. And everything I've learned about coconut oil since then tells me exactly the opposite. So So what's the scoop? I mean, for me, I think a lot of it has to do with the quality of the coconut oil that we're talking about. But give us the lowdown. Why is coconut oil good and how is it gotten this bad reputation? Like what are people? How are people looking at it wrong or interpreting things wrong in order to come to that conclusion?
Charisa and Carmina 4:24
Right? That's that's a really good question, a very loaded question. But the simplest answer is coconut oil is a saturated fat. So already for the longest time for years, people have said certain doctors have said saturated fat is bad for you. But what they don't go into is that there's so many different kinds of saturated fat. So the saturated fat that will clog your pores is atherogenic would be the long chain saturated fats found in meats and that kind of protein. But coconut oil is a medium chain saturated fat. So it has very different metabolic pathways. So it's processed by the body differently. It does not clog your arteries. What happens is it goes straight to your liver, and it's converted to ketones and releases energy. So it doesn't add any, like increased lipid values in your blood. So that's the main thing. And a lot of people don't focus on the different types of saturated fat, they basically lump all saturated fats in the same basket. Yep. Yeah.
Dr. Judy Morgan 5:23
Great, great information. And interestingly, we really don't see hardening of the arteries and atherosclerosis in pets like we do in people. T he metabolism is totally different. And we know that we can feed our pets, dogs and cats, really high fat diets. So for instance, a ketogenic diet, we can think of very high fat diets, and it's not a problem, it's not going to cause heart disease, it actually helps prevent it in our pets. So I think, you know, first and foremost, dispelling the myth that it's bad for us is really critical. Because there have been some pseudo scientific articles, presentations that, like you say, are really kind of looking at it from the from what I consider to be the wrong direction, just kind of lumping things together. So we're going to talk about how you develop new products and source them and the hoops that you jump through to do that. But I want to talk about some of the uses of so you have a couple of different products. Now when I originally met you, it was coconut oil. And now you have your coconut oil, which is high in one, sort of medium chain acid. And then we have the MCT oil, can you talk about the difference between coconut oil and MCT oil?
Charisa and Carmina 6:53
Yeah, our virgin coconut oil is about 65% medium chain fats. And then the other is some long chain and some short chain fats. The MCT oil is primarily just medium chain fats. So it's about 98%, medium chain fats, mainly lauric acid, Caprylic, and capric acid. Now the our virgin coconut oil has a lot more lauric acid in it, because that's why virgin coconut oil is very rich in. And the reason why we came up with these different oils is depending on the animal or what type of issues you want to address. For the MCT oil animals that are extremely lipid sensitive, that are have a hard time digesting fats, we would recommend MCT oil because being mainly primarily medium chain fats, it's a lot easier to digest, you don't need the kind of microns for digestion, it you know, there's hardly any long chain fats in it. Now the virgin coconut oil because it's higher lauric acid. We like virgin coconut oil because of the antimicrobial aspects of lauric acid. Animals can tolerate fats easier, then we recommend the virgin coconut oil. And MCT oil is very high in Caprylic and capric acid.
Dr. Judy Morgan 8:09
Okay. And I know there's been a lot of talk about using the MCT oil in particular for cognitive issues and seizure issues. Is there a reason why the MCT oil is better than the regular coconut oil for the brain issues?
Charisa and Carmina 8:30
Yes, um, because it gets metabolized very, very quickly. capric and caprylic acid are shorter chain even than lauric acid has eight and 10 carbon chains. So because it's so short and so small, the liver can convert it to ketones much faster, elevates the blood ketones faster. And then it gets the brain it crosses the blood brain barrier faster and the one and some lauric acid which is what we have in our MCT oil. It crosses the blood brain barrier and converts to brain ketones. Yeah, a little bit slower. Yeah, at a slower rate. But and it helps with with with cognitive decline, because basically when the brain has... feeds on ketones, it feeds on ketones. So when people say they've got a brain issues, it's it's basically diabetes of the brain because the brain doesn't have any food to feed off which they feed on ketones. So which is why a lot of the medium chain fats are extremely good for brain health. It supports the brain and did I miss anything else?
Dr. Judy Morgan 9:35
So for anybody who has any doubts about how intelligent and smart and wonderful these ladies are, that explanation goes way above, hey, we're just selling coconut oil, they understand what the science is behind the product. So with that, I'd like to talk about how you guys develop new products because I think when I first met you, I think you had coconut oil and maybe coconut chips. Yeah. And since that time and it hasn't been that many years you've had so many new products hit the market and I have yet to find one that I don't go Wow. So it's, it's been really interesting but this latest selection of treats so a lot of your products are treats, we've got the, the medically beneficial MCT oil, coconut oil, the coconut chips are just a phenomenal fiber source for animals that have problems with stool consistency. And then the coconut the the finely ground coconut hairball plus for the kitty cats, people think it's normal for their cats to vomit a lot and vomit. It's not, it's not.
So that's been you know, it's just it's a whole food source and the the cats really like it. So it's not something where we're having to force mineral oil and laxatives down kitty cats, this is a much more natural way to get them to, to move things through the bowel. But this the newest selections of treats, and a lot of your treats are not meat based treats, which is really cool. And they're organic. So the sourcing is amazing. But for people who have animals with IBD, or protein allergies to find something that has such high quality ingredients, that's not going to cause some sort of an IBS, or you know, itchy allergy problem, dry skin, it's actually going to help with that. So some of the new ingredients I want you to talk about some of these are coconut milk, Moringa, which is very interesting. Beets, turmeric, ginger, cranberry, peppermint, and parsley. And I know that when you're putting together your products, it's not just about Ooh, you know, that's gonna look good on the label, or doesn't that sound cool? It really is looking for a benefit for the animal. So we're going to start with Moringa because that one is is something I haven't seen in treats and pet food ingredients. And frankly, I don't even know if I know what it is. So what is it? Where does it come from? And why are you using it?
Charisa and Carmina 12:22
Yeah, the reason why we use Moringa is because we grew up with it. In the Philippines, Moringa is a plant it's called Malunggay. And it's it's similar to spinach and kale and people don't really eat a lot of spinach and kale in the Philippines. They eat Moringa or Malunggay. In fact, we grew up my sister has Moringa bush in her backyard. So my my, my mom, my parents, my family, we would pick the leaves and we would boil it, we would use it in soups and stews. We would make tea, and they knew of the health benefits for Moringa. So we something we've grown up with. And back in was it 2017. We were actually my older sister who lives in the Philippines, currently, when we were developing our treats, we were using spinach and kale. She said and this was a long time ago, many years ago. She goes, Why don't you guys use malunggay which is Moringa. And we thought, you know, I don't even know if they have that here in the US. Is that even popular here? Do they understand it? Then she go Yeah, but she uses it for her dog when her dog gets sick they use it like instead of chicken noodle soup they'll do Moringa soup, and Malunggay soup when people get sick and and we thought you know what, we should start doing some research and seeing do people here in the US use it? Can you get it here and Charisa came upon an article in 2017 that Dr. Becker wrote regarding Moringa where she actually used it to treat a cockatiel with heavy metal poisoning. Right. So yeah, well just to step back, let's step back a little bit. So Moringa is incredible superfood. It is loaded with vitamins, minerals, and antioxidants. And sure everybody says that about every vegetable out there. But this is really amazing because it's got it literally has more vitamin A, than, than carrots, more vitamin C than oranges. It has more protein than yogurt. It's got 26 times more protein than spinach. I mean no iron than spinach. So it's unbelievable how rich Moringa is. It also is filled with antioxidants. It has quercetin which we know quercetin is very good for the immune system. It has compounds that help. And so inflammatory, like help with the liver. And so it has 19 amino acids. Yeah, as well. So it's really an amazing vegetable. And the thing is in Dr. Becker used that she had a cockatoo that had heavy metal poisoning. So Moringa is also known as a wonderful detoxifier. It's like a collator so it binds heavy metals to it. So she had a cockatoo that had heavy metal poisoning. So She gave it some Moringa. And within a few months, the heavy the metal levels in the blood became normal, and just with Moringa alone, so it's wonderful for heavy metal toxicity and it also binds to arsenic. And we know that and the reason why the Philippines is a very rice rich country, they eat rice all the time. And we know that rice has various levels of arsenic. So this groundwater water that's on the ground is found. There's arsenic levels in some of that water. So Moringa is known to actually detoxify arsenic in the blood. And so there's there's really a lot of studies about it. It's not just all hearsay. Yeah, it's wonderful. Yeah.
Dr. Judy Morgan 15:45
That is very cool. Is is Moringa grown in the US?
Charisa and Carmina 15:49
Primarily Asia. Yeah. So the Philippines, um, Sri Lanka. And I think they're going to they're starting to grow here, which is your I probably in more tropical regions in the Philippines, but I mean, in the US, but it's definitely more Yeah. In the, in the Philippines and Asian countries, mainly, that the reason why I had a difficult time sourcing Moringa was difficult. We had tested so many sources of Moringa, prior to these treats, and a lot of them were actually high in heavy metals, because it attracts heavy metals and binds to heavy metals, so we couldn't use them. And what took us almost two years to actually find a source that we like and tested. I think it depends on the soil, it's grown in as well. Yeah. So just as a part of our product development, we pick our ingredients very carefully. And once we get them, we have to see the certificate of analysis for every single ingredient. So our product has a certificate of analysis, our ingredients have a COA, so we're very picky. And we just make sure it's a good a good source. I mean, you could have other sources of Moringa that you could use. But if you don't really know where it comes from, then it could be a little iffy, unless you had a bush in your backyard. The plant itself was fine. I mean, if you go to an Asian store, you'll see you can usually get Moringa Yeah. And that's an Asian source, and that's what we use, we would use and normally when because Charisa had very sick when we had very sick animals, we would make moringa tea, or with a vegetable, the moringa we'd buy in these Asian stores. So we would use... it's not powdered, it's not processed. It's vegetables. A lot of them are organic. So we would use that to make them tea or soup or broth, and we would add it to their food just like anybody would add spinach or kale.
Dr. Judy Morgan 17:38
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I'm going to have to go looking for Moringa now I'm very curious about this. I don't think I could grow it here. It gets too cold.
Charisa and Carmina 18:39
yeah. If you've got an Asian store, a Phillipino store, you might see Malunggay also and that's Moringa. The leaves a very tiny and round. So that's what they look like. And you know are very
Dr. Judy Morgan 18:49
Very, ver cool. So you've incorporated this into some of your new treats. Are these is that in the coco milk bones or is it in the gems?
Charisa and Carmina 19:00
In the gems. They're in the gems. Yes.
Dr. Judy Morgan 19:03
And what is the moringa combined with is that combined with any of these other really cool ingredients?
Charisa and Carmina 19:08
with the moringas itself we use coconut and coconut oil. Yes. Yeah.
Dr. Judy Morgan 19:13
Okay. So let's talk about beets. Why did you gravitate toward beets? Again, not something that is in a whole lot of treats and foods out there on the market.
Charisa and Carmina 19:25
Well, when I had Lucy my previous Chihuahua, she had really high in ALT values and I want to integrative vet, I went to see Dr. Becker and she put her on a liver detox diet and part of it was you know ground turkey or fish and the vegetables she the primary vegetable she told me to get good was beets, beets and beet greens, mainly parsley, obviously. But um, so when she said that I started doing my research also because obviously I just want to learn more. We are very research oriented. So we're always reading studies on, on anything, anything you put in our mouths. Anything that we we eat or give to our dogs. And there is an amazing amount of literature out there on the health benefits of beets. I mean, today you see beet powder, beet pills, people take them, you know, they drank a lot of beets. But this really helped her detoxify her liver. So aside from those detoxifying effects, they're also very high. They're very nutritious. They're high in vitamins and minerals. And so it's it's also anti inflammatory. It's high in folate, manganese and potassium, vitamin C, as well. So we always want to say our treats are not junk food, they're actually health food. And so that's why and beets are very tasty dogs really like them. They're slightly sweet. So they're easily accepted by dogs, I wouldn't feed my dog, just plain beets. But we decided I want to be I couldn't find any treats. And it was tough because I would have to put in a food processor and mix it in her food but and that's like, it's just a lot of work. So we thought let's just make some treats.
Dr. Judy Morgan 21:04
So instead you're doing the work for us, by putting this together, something that's palatable and they like. Okay, so let's talk about turmeric.
Charisa and Carmina 21:14
Okay. We all know turmeric is an as an outstanding compound, it's, it's, it's an anti, it has high antioxidants. It's a great anti inflammatory, it's great for dogs with cancer. So we just wanted a treat that had turmeric in there that helped with that. A lot of the times you would see tumeric in a pet food or treats, but usually in the food world, it's used as a coloring agent. So you need high levels, higher levels of Tumeric for it to be functional, or beneficial. So that's another thing we wanted to make sure is I mean, sure, you can maybe buy some food or if Tumeric is listed on a label, it's usually for colorant. And for, you know, not necessarily palatability or or health benefits, but Tumeric has been used in erimedic medicine for 5000 years, in Asia and India as a health tonic for various reasons. So yeah, and if you smell our treats, actually, you can really really smell the turmeric, it comes out very strong. In fact, yeah, we were actually a little bit worried about that, too, that you didn't know, just how accepted that dogs would accept it. But actually, they actually like it. Yeah.
Dr. Judy Morgan 22:28
Yeah, I haven't had palatability issues with turmeric in the diet. So that's great. Yeah, so we also have ginger, which is actually fairly similar to turmeric. At least from a Chinese medicine standpoint. It's Chi tonic. It's warming, great for digestion, great as an anti inflammatory. So I really like that as well. And then you're using cranberries. Yeah, and cranberries, we know are really good for bladder health, but they're also just a great anti oxidant. They kind of fall in that category with cranberries, blueberries, and then you have something with peppermint and parsley. Why did you choose those two?
Charisa and Carmina 23:08
Yeah, well, we chose peppermint and parsley because it is great for dental health and oral health, but it's also great for digestive health. A lot of the times when, when dogs have oral issues or bad health, bad breath issues, it could come internally from the gut. So um, parsley and peppermint is very known to calm the stomach, and um, help with nausea, acid reflux. And also I've my dog, right here, she has acid reflux issues, so that those parsley and peppermint has helped calm her stomach as well, as well as the ginger too. That's also helped her nausea, and she gets carsick also travel sickness. So that's why that seems to help her. You know that? Yeah. So it's very rich in flavonoids. And, again, a lot of health benefits in the mint and in the parsley, as well.
Dr. Judy Morgan 23:58
So I know I've talked to you about this in the past, but when you're making the, the, the recipes for these treats, you're not just throwing in a sprinkle of peppermint in the whole batch or a sprinkle of ginger in the batch, you're actually trying to use these ingredients at a level that is going to actually provide a benefit not just be a treat. So how do you determine what that level is or where you need to be with that?
Charisa and Carmina 24:31
Yeah, well, well, for one thing the FDA has certain criteria for to to label treats, whether they're functional or to use ingredients in the front of the label to even mention to state to state claims on the front of label like if it's got ginger or turmeric or you know the functional aspects of them. So they have certain percentages that you must reach to be able to do that. So you know, the FDA is a huge guideline for that. So we do use the guidelines and to be able to put with turmeric or with coconut milk or with Moringa on the front label, it has to reach a certain percentage of inclusivity in the treat itself. So it can't be a sprinkle, it has to be a certain amount in relation to the total percentage of the treat right to be able to state that on the front. Yep, yep.
Dr. Judy Morgan 25:24
Right. Right. But I think, you know, there's a huge component when you're making things that you don't want a bunch of like, we don't see fillers in your treat. No, yeah. It seems more when I'm reading ingredient labels, that everything that's in there is in there to serve a purpose, right? Not just to be a binder or whatever.
Charisa and Carmina 25:49
right. That's true. I mean, it's very difficult to develop treats, because you do need binders, you need certain ingredients to for cosmetic purposes or, or for baking purposes, which is the reason why it takes us so long to develop a treat. We have these products that are healthy, maybe they're not harmful, but they're not healthy, either there or just, you know, they are. So we like to use every ingredient that is healthy, which is why we use, you know, the ingredients that we use are very limited as well. So we like to eliminate all the other because when every week we come up with treats and we work with, we develop that we make ourselves first that's what we first do we make it in our own kitchen, in our own oven. And if it holds up and the dogs like it and then we try to commercialize it and for a larger batch. And then normally typically the larger commercial kitchen would recommend things to do with it. Like you need to add glycerin or tapioca or, you know, whatever the ingredient is because it's too this, it's too that. And it's like, we really don't want to do that. So it's a big challenge. But one of the like, for example, gluten free treats need a lot of protein to bind it. Which is why a lot of gluten free treats need a lot of eggs. But we wanted to leave eggs out and wanted it to be vegan. Yeah. So just a whole lot of balance there, we have to make sure that there's a certain amount of protein from the other ingredients to be able to bind.
Dr. Judy Morgan 27:15
I think scaling up becomes a huge challenge. Ladies, we're out of time. I am so grateful for everything that you do and for the information that you give us and for the phenomenal products that you make that are held to such a high standard. And for anyone who wants more information about CocoTherapy. They are on Instagram, Facebook and their website CocoTherapy.com
Charisa and Carmina 27:38
Thanks, Dr. Morgan. Thank you for having us.
Dr. Judy Morgan 28:57
Thanks for listening to another great Naturally Healthy Pets episode. Be sure to check out the show notes for some helpful links. And if you enjoy the show, please be sure to follow and listen for free on your favorite podcast app. We value your feedback and we'd love to hear from you on how we're doing. Visit DrJudyMorgan.com for healthy product recommendations, comprehensive courses, upcoming events and other fantastic resources. Until next time, keep giving your pet the vibrant life they deserve.
Disclaimer 29:25
The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. It is no substitute for professional care by a veterinarian, licensed nutritionist or other qualified professional. You're encouraged to do your own research and should not rely on this information as professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. Dr. Judy and her guests express their own views, experience and conclusions. Dr. Judy Morgan's Naturally Healthy Pets neither endorses or opposes any particular view discussed here.
