Intro 0:00
Welcome to the naturally healthy pets podcast. Let's get to it.
Dr. Judy Morgan
Welcome to Dr. Judy Morgan's Naturally Healthy Pets Podcast. Today I'm very happy to have as my guest Julie Anne Lee and we are going to be talking about unlocking and understanding pre, Pro and post biotics, so we will find out what they are and how we use them. Julie Anne Lee is the founder and co owner of the Adored Beast Apothecary where she formulates holistic pet care products. And there are a lot of them. I can attest to that, because we have shelves of them in the warehouse. They're extremely popular because they're incredibly good. She is also a pioneer in studying the animal microbiome and developing protocols for optimizing gut health. She's brilliant at this. It's all part of a rapidly expanding picture and understanding of the crucial role the microbiome plays in the health of all of our animals and ourselves. And interestingly, if we go back 10 years, nobody talked about the microbiome, nobody knew what the microbiome was. It was just not we had no clue how important this is. So thankfully, we have people like Julie Anne who are now doing a lot of research so that we are discovering a lot of this. She's also part of a research and development team examining, producing and formulating unique first in the industry, species specific probiotics and functional prebiotics for animals and we'll get into what those are. Currently, Julie is in her fourth year of an extensive research project on canine cancer. Thank goodness because I'm not a research person. So I'm really happy that other people are. How do you pronounce that university where you're doing it? Dalhousie, okay, doing research and development with her medicinal mushroom forest as well in Nova Scotia, Canada called Myco-Biome very cool, like who has their own forest full of mushrooms?
Julie Anne Lee 2 2:07
Growing mushrooms, yeah, in a forest, it's interesting.
Dr. Judy Morgan 1 2:11
It's very, very cool. So Julie lives in Nova Scotia, Canada on her rescue farm called Joseph's field. Why is it named Joseph's field?
Julie Anne Lee 2:20
After a rescue horse I had. Yeah, he was amazing.
Dr. Judy Morgan 2:25
She shares her home and farm with numerous dogs, cats, horses, donkeys, cows, chickens, one legged ducks, a blind pot bellied pig and a ball python named Bob all of whom came to Julie as a last resort, chronically ill or abused, and who are now living their best lives with their forever home. Jeez, I feel so inadequate. My farm only has half of those animals.
Julie Anne Lee 2:50
Well, they weren't there like they seep in. It's like no more animals. No more animals. Yeah, okay, whatever.
Dr. Judy Morgan 2:55
And then they show up. Yeah, well, I'm good with all of it, except for the ball python named Bob. I will draw the line if it you know, scales on legs of chickens are fine, but scales on bodies. No, not doing that. All right. So thanks, Julie, and you are a ball of energy, you have so much going on. And I really appreciate you taking the time out of your day. And the construction that's going on in your house, which is just making it even more fun.
Julie Anne Lee 3:23
Oh, yeah, it's just the icing on the cake.
Dr. Judy Morgan 3:27
It is. Alright, so first of all, for those who may not be up to speed on this particular topic, if you could give us a quick description, you got three things to tell us what they are prebiotics, probiotics and postbiotics.
Julie Anne Lee 3:44
Yes, yes. So prebiotics are the food source that help the probiotics survive in the gut. So the the probiotics need a food source, an energy source so that they can colonize, and, and live in the gut, right and stay healthy and vital and, you know, be able to produce what we're going to talk about with postbiotics. So prebiotics were kind of initially just looked at as Oh, they're just food. But now we're finding that that there. I'm doing a lot of research on prebiotics. And even now, to this day, the majority of prebiotics that are on the market are sugar based like fructose, maltodextrin, things like that. And they do feed just like they feed yeast just like they feed they feed bacteria, right, like sugar really does feed bacteria. So it was a fast, efficient, easy way to add those things. So that the probiotics maintain their health and integrity. But what we've been finding is that prebiotics and I'll get into this more with postbiotics, but prebiotics, kind of like certain bacteria is better than other bacterias or the bacteria is kind of get along better with what's with certain prebiotics. So, we'll dig into prebiotics a bit more. But so there's prebiotics, then there's probiotics, which is the, the friendly bacteria that help to produce things like short chain fatty acids, convert our food into vitamins and, and nutrients, produce the, the, you know, create the gut brain access. I kind of talk about probiotics. If we look at a body, whether it's a dog, cat, horse, pig cow, it doesn't matter. But if we look at a body, with all of these moving parts, like a symphony, I always say that the probiotics in the gut are the conductor. They're kind of believe it or not, like we had no idea about this, you know, like you said, 10 years ago, I've been sort of in it for about 27 years. I know I mean, I was I like a little off thing. But in 2006, I wrote about it, my vet, my vet hospital had a had a column in the Vancouver Sun, and I wrote about probiotics being good for animals, and I got a fine from the Veterinary Association because I couldn't prove it. And I had to retract my statement. That's how much we've advanced. And that was in 2006.
Dr. Judy Morgan 6:50
So 17 years ago, yeah, you find for talking about probiotics
Julie Anne Lee 6:54
$ 3000 fine and I had to retract it saying that I had no evidence to say that probiotics are good for dogs.
Dr. Judy Morgan 6:59
Oh, my gosh, yeah, the Canadian vet board is a little nuttier than the American ones I thought we were bad.
Julie Anne Lee 7:07
Anyways, it's like it's like I say that that you know, it's the foundation it kind of the the gut is the is sort of the, the, the foundation or the conductor to be like, Okay, you need more serotonin. So you need more hormones you need you need this, you need that and it sort of influences everything in the body. We know that now. So probiotics can be made from all different kinds of things and they're all different kinds of of friendly or beneficial bacteria
Dr. Judy Morgan 7:43
so when we talk probiotics, I know we talk bacteria, but aren't there viruses and fungal elements or every type those are part of the microbiome
Julie Anne Lee 7:57
they are so and we will talk with once we dig in or we can do it right now it doesn't matter. But the big thing that we're that we're that I subscribe to is that it's really important like probiotics are what we can ingest through fermented foods, through fermented fermented bacteria, isolated bacteria fermented into a probiotic. There's there's a few different ways to get that bacteria through eating dirt through you know, all kinds of things, fecal transplants there's there's a million different ways to get that bacteria but the the actual probiotic that we're used to talking about with supplementation, there's, there's more they're called banks. So we have actually got, you know, certain strains that are patented and registered in the probiotic banks. So they're, they're registered they have a name, they have a they have a like a license number. And then we have to register that number and show the science behind it and what it does. So all the probiotics do all kinds of different things. And then the pre and probiotics together, create this thing called postbiotic. so you don't get purchase post biotics or take post biotics. post biotics are the aftermath of this sort of really wonderful dance of a really good prebiotic, and that probiotic and then it creates the post biotic and the post biotic is things like the conversion into vitamin K the or the conversion, a creation of short chain fatty acids or the ability to immune modulate the whole entire immune system or make sure that pathogenic bacterias like E. coli, Salmonella Clostridium are kept at bay. And that's when you weren't you know, you were to I came about yeast and in all of that, so my feeling and my, my really, really deep understanding is that I look at this whole three pieces as producing an intelligence in a part of the body that is paramount for longevity and in long term health. And when we get into this sort of egocentric state where we feel like we know more than what our bodies know, or what nature knows, or how we were sort of designed to stay healthy, and we go, okay, we need to eradicate this yeast, we need to eradicate this bacteria, we need to get rid of it, we need to sterilize it, we need to give antibiotics and we do need can have to give anti anti fungals and anti anti anti antis right. Sorry. And the problem with that, that I see is that I believe that the the gut has to be challenged, right, we need to challenge our gut. If we go into this place where we have to eradicate stuff our bacteria doesn't stay. It doesn't stay on its game. Right? So we want bacteria in the gut to be like, okay, too much Clostridium is happening at this moment, send out these defenders to be sure that we just put those guys back in their place, they can stay, they just have to behave themselves.
Dr. Judy Morgan 11:41
Exactly. And that's one of the problems that we see with antibiotics, antifungals, anti whatever is that, hey, we're just going to wipe out the entire population. And unfortunately, sometimes the guys that we don't want sort of those pathogenic guys will then take over. That's when we see C Diff in people. So commonly it's because the antibiotic wiped out everybody who was keeping that bad guy in check, we need to take a quick break to hear from our sponsor, we'll be back in just a few moments.
PRODUCT SPOTLIGHT 12:13
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Dr. Judy Morgan 12:43
Welcome back. My guest today is Julie Anne Lee and we are discussing pre, Pro and post biotics and it's a fascinating science that we just are I think at the tip of the iceberg, I think there's still so much more that we don't know. So I want to I want to touch on two things. In the second half, I want to touch on you were talking about the post biotics, which are the things thwe have this thing called the gut brain axis. So I'd like you to kind of address that. And then the second thing I want to talk about is how diet affects what we have going on here.
Julie Anne Lee 13:39
Sure. Sure. Okay, so so when I was talking about like the Symphony we the gut has access is we're learning now that the gut has access to everything. So we have the the gut brain access, we have the gut, kidney access the gut, hormonal access, so it's, it's that it's that gut sort of conducting and and navigating, when things should do what and when they shouldn't do things right. So like, like produce for let's say, the brain produce, okay, the the gut needs to be producing more serotonin or, or the brain needs to be producing more feel good hormones, or this has to happen or that has to happen. So. So if we really think about it, I think everyone has heard my gut told me to do this, my gut told me to do that my gut instincts or you know, that whole Oh, when I get anxious, my gut, first thing that happens is my gut feels weird. Right? So, so we've known for a very long time, that that the gut actually has more of the intuitive senses in the brain. And the cool thing about dogs and people or animals and people is that what should really be happening is the gut should be, there's so many components to this. So if it's producing B vitamins, if it's making sure that the if the gut's making sure that it is it is converting the vital, the vital nutrients that are specifically for the brain. from a, from a physiological point of view, we can see how all of that happens, right? How all that keeps our brains and our animals' brains healthy. But when we break it down even more, it's like, the fight or flight mechanism in people and animals that cortisol rush happens first in the gut. Because you can feel it, you literally can feel it. And then it tells it, then the brain kind of goes, it tells her the brain do we run? Do we fight? Do we flight? Do we chill out? What do we do? So when that gut brain access is disconnected, the brain will first of all, not function balanced. It'll get too heightened, it'll be too spacey, it'll go into sort of habitual. They're called neurological tapes or roles. Right? So it'll play the same role. The same tape. Oh, last time, I'm a dog the last time my pet parent left, the broom fell on me. Right. So that role continues to happen. So not enough hormones are produced not enough where they kind of like the horses go back to grazing, I call it right, where they can sort of settle themselves down. So there's a true physiological component of the mechanism that happens. But then what's kind of cool with animals that I saw in my practice, do you know that it was the gut brain access with aggressive dogs that I first started looking at the gut more before cancer before anything, because I saw a lot of animals that were going to be euthanized. So, and I saw the changes in their personality so fast when I changed their diet, and I added gut health to their diets so fast. It was just it was amazing. So so the difference with between people and animals, though, is that we can be a little bit brainwashed. Right? So even if we're doing all this great stuff with our gut, we are you know, watching commercials and we're doing all of this stuff that we're in we're taught a lot of stuff that it's it takes a while but with an animal. It's I actually see it happen faster than with people. And Dr. McBride, if anyone wants to go and look at look her up, she is a pediatrician that treated autism, ADHD, like like some intense, intense, emotional mental health stuff, literally just by treating the gut and doing something called the GAPS diet. So diet, diet and probiotics and prebiotics. So the gut brain access is something that has been that is this been like, proven time and time and time again, and we're just touching on it with animals. But I know because I have my rescue animals here. And one of the criterias for the horses is that they have to have PTSD, or the majority of them have PTSD, because of the ones that get euthanized faster than anything else. And the difference is, is crazy. And I'm hoping I'm going to try to speak about this really fast too, because what I so we just came out with a wolf string. Right. And we know that with fecal transplants that we can, and this is the gut brain too that I'm going to talk about, but that how you know if you do in some mice studies, where they this is horrible how they did it, but it's science and stuff. They shocked these mice, they put them on shock things so that they created this anxiety, really bad anxiety and sort of semi almost aggression with these mice. And then they did fecal transplants of those mice into other mice that were calm. And those calm mice became took on that anxiety from the fecal transplants. So we know that the gut produces sort of like an energetic emotional DNA component. We know that. So what was really cool is that that when I started doing species specific probiotics, meaning, you know, really getting into the science of what does it look like when you take dog feces and you isolate those bacterias. And then we worked with them with them in the lab. And then we worked with them in live studies. Like what does it do? It's quite fascinating actually. We don't have enough time to get into it. But it's really fascinating. So when we did the wolf strain my hypothesis, because I couldn't prove it, yet, we're doing some work on it now, but I couldn't prove it, then was that when I looked at wolves, it's like, okay, they're 160 pounds some of these animals, right? They're living till they're 16 and 17 years of age. They're having, they're having, they're producing litters. When they're 10. They're no one's giving them antibiotics. No one's stitching their wounds. They are living out in the cold, like what's going on. So I was desperate to get a wolf strain from really resilient wild wolves. And when you watch wolves, they have a very, very calm demeanor when they're not hunting, or when, like when they're calm, they're calm. When they're hunting, they're in hunting state when they're being chased. Or there's danger, they're in the danger state, but when they're not, when they know that they're, everything's chilled. They're really community based, and they're fascinating animals. So we took the we isolated the strains of the wolf. And when I put when I put it out there, we started getting all of these people saying to us, is this can this be happening, because my dog's way less anxious, my dogs way less this. And then we had a trainer contact us and say, I've been working with this animal that stopped eating. this dog that would refuse to eat. And then it was food aggressive. So you couldn't even take it away. Like they really had him on drugs, they had him on everything, nothing was working, they didn't know what happened to him. Anyways, nothing else changed. But they put him on the wolf, just not for that reason, but they put him on the wolf. And within three weeks, his dog started eating. So then she started using it with other with other her other dogs. And my point is, is that I believe that probiotics carry something called a fingerprint. So carry the, sort of the energy of that, right of that whatever we're taking it from, whether that's the soil or whatever. So we've been doing some, you know, talking to people putting it out there hearing what people what people are saying. And I think what's happening is that we're adding bacteria, that's virgin. It hasn't been vaccinated, it hasn't been medicated has not been on processed food, or sugars or things like that, right? It's been the natural thing for this dog, you're gonna die if you don't eat. So it's almost like giving that that that remembrance, or that ancestry of what they would naturally be doing. Right, like, what is not urbanized. So, it I mean, we could talk about this for three hours. Like, it's just such a phenomenal and I what you said though, is like we've just touched the surface.
Julie Anne Lee 23:31
And my only concern about about the research is that I think it's very important to research, obviously I'm a research nerd, but I also feel like we have to go, Okay, we have a lot to learn from nature, instead of trying to take nature and stick nature in a box that are our box. It's like, we got to try and learn from it, as well. Right? So yes, the gut brain access can affect, you know, even, you know, geriatric vestibular I've been looking at, which is ear and brain, but also cognitive function, right? So, you know, geriatric cognitive disorder, I really am looking into a lot of like prevention for that right helping, helping make sure that the brain stays healthy. And through the gut.
Dr. Judy Morgan 24:23
Well, absolutely, because we know that these the post biotics, those short chain fatty acids, and that hormone production, so so, so critical, and we are just about out of time, so we don't have time to go in depth into how diet affects this, but we do know that feeding high carbohydrate diets to our carnivores, things that break down into sugars, well, yes, a sugar can be a good prebiotic, but those sugars and carbs, unfortunately are feeding the wrong strains and causing a lot of dysbiosis which is basically jumbling of the microbiome and making big messes. And that's why we have so many animals with behavior disorders, anxiety disorders, inflammatory disorders, chronic disease. So everything, everything allergies, I mean, so much depends on this microbiome. Julie, I'm gonna have to have you back on again, because there's, I mean, we literally could be at this all day. You are just a wealth of information. So for those who want more information about the Adored Beast, Facebook is Adored Beast. LinkedIn is the Adored Beast Apothecary dash Ltd. And Instagram is @adoredbeastapothecary. The website is AdoredBeast.com. So pretty simple. You have great blogs, great information on your website, we share a lot of it because it is amazing. Thank you so much, Julie and keep up the good work and I'm looking forward to hearing more about that cancer study.
Julie Anne Lee 26:04
And we are going to give you a an ebook, right so we're gonna gift to Dr. Morgan, because she's just so amazing. And we try to support everything that you do because you're a wealth of connection to everyone which is like, you know ow, I always say that that you're ever you're like a mycelium like you're getting it everywhere, right?
Dr. Judy Morgan 26:26
our goal is to educate and help the pet parents keep their pets happy and healthy and improve longevity and their health span as well as their lifespan. So that's awesome. The eBook link will be provided and we look forward to it. Thank you so much.
Julie Anne Lee
Thank you.
Outro
Thanks for listening to another great Naturally Healthy Pets episode. Be sure to check out the show notes for some helpful links. And if you enjoy the show, please be sure to follow and listen for free on your favorite podcast app. We value your feedback and we'd love to hear from you on how we're doing. Visit DrJudyMorgan.com for healthy product recommendations, comprehensive courses, upcoming events and other fantastic resources. Until next time, keep giving your pet the vibrant life they deserve.
DISCLAIMER
The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. It is no substitute for professional care by a veterinarian, licensed nutritionist or other qualified professional. You're encouraged to do your own research and should not rely on this information as professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. Dr. Judy and her guests express their own views, experience and conclusions. Dr. Judy Morgan's Naturally Healthy Pets neither endorses or opposes any particular view discussed here.
