Intro 0:00
Welcome to the Naturally Healthy Pets podcast. Let's get to it.
Dr. Judy Morgan
Welcome. You're listening to Dr. Judy Morgan's Naturally Healthy Pets podcast, and I'm your host, Dr. Judy Morgan. Today we are going to discuss something that can be very difficult for many of us. And that is healing from pet loss grief. As you all know, I have had many, many, many dogs and cats and birds and horses. And unfortunately, our pets do not live as long as we do. And so if we have animals, we are all going to have to deal with pet loss and the grief that goes along with that. So my guest today is Erica Messer, and she has been increasingly passionate about educating people on the issue of pet bereavement. Since her cat Wolfgang fell off her apartment roof and tragically died. And many of us have been in that position where an animal dies tragically, and we don't have unfortunately that time to prepare ourselves. She now shares her ways to cope with pet loss, grief, and offers solutions as well as permission to normalize pet loss grief. She is the founder of Wolfie's Wish, a pet loss support company, which is amazing, because this is something that so many of us need. Erica, thank you so much for agreeing to talk to us about this really tough subject.
Erica Messer 1:35
Thank you for having me. And being willing to go there. It is hard for a lot of people. But there are solutions, which I didn't know existed when I needed it. So that's what I'm doing now.
Dr. Judy Morgan 1:49
Exactly. So at what point should people be looking for help? I mean, I've got a dog with cancer right now. He He's almost 16. He doesn't know he's sick, he's got multiple comorbidities. And he still runs around plays with the young dogs, bounces through the house eats like a champ. So I haven't even come close to going through the anticipatory grief with him. Because he's doing great. Now at some point that will change. So is it better if you know that something is coming? Obviously, if we have a tragic loss? That is a sudden loss, we don't have time to prepare. But what kind of things can we do? Moving into that, like I know, at some point, this guy is going to start acting sick. And so what, what kind of things can people do to kind of help move into that?
Erica Messer 2:50
Yeah, that's a great question. I would say, in a perfect world, as soon as we adopted a pet or some people purchase pets would be the time to have a sort of an SOS plan, right? Should my pet fall sick or get or get injured? What are some basic things I want to have happen? Do I want them buried or cremated? Do I want an urn? Just basic questions? And then to answer your question with the anticipatory preparation, you know, it's a really good time to start keeping a journal or a log of the condition, the energy, the appetite of your dog, to be able to see the signs clearly, when they do start to lose energy or stop eating or some habits change that may, maybe are hard to see day to day, but I work with a lot of pet caretakers and they keep these logs and when they come and see the pet whether it's bi weekly, weekly, sometimes monthly, they're able to see the signs a lot more clearly than the owner, which is really enlightening. So I don't think it's ever too early to start to you know, be aware of the health concerns and needs that may come up but also it's never too early to prepare ourselves and to put into practices for self care for allowing time to grieve, for finding support groups should that be a an interest you know, to you or someone you know and just start exploring how am I going to get through this? How am I going to take care of myself while it take care of my sick pet and then you know it can get we get into in home euthanasia choices and just having a plan is the best thing we can do. And then and then it's a waiting game right and we want to have we want our pets to have long healthy lives and palliative care. That's what that's for that's to extend their life and their and have a good quality of life while they're still with us. just because you know your pet has cancer doesn't mean it's the end. And you have to euthanize them when you find that out, not at all.
Dr. Judy Morgan 5:11
Yeah, we, we actually have a whole course that I put together with Michele Allen, who founded Monkey's House Senior Dog Hospice, in New Jersey, and hospice and palliative care can make such a huge difference. And I was just answering emails before I came on air and someone sent me an email and said, their dog was just diagnosed with stage three kidney disease, their veterinarian gave the dog one to two months to live. And I cringe when I see that. I deal with a lot of heart patients as well. And I cringe when they're time stamped, and they're given, you've got two months left, and I look at these and say, one of my own dogs, the cardiologist said, Oh, he's got two to three months left, I'm really sorry. And I nodded my head and thanked him and said, That's great. I'm gonna go do my thing now, which is the alternative care. And that dog lived two amazing years. After his death sentence and his timestamp. And so I think that is really critical for people to understand that sometimes, you're given a very poor prognosis that you don't necessarily have to go by. So palliative care and palliative care, we're not talking about trying to cure them, we're just talking about comfort, keeping them comfortable. I'm not about keeping an animal alive and longevity, based on you know, just being able to say, Oh, I got two years, it's being able to say no, we had an amazing quality of life for those two years. So if someone knows ahead of time, that their pet is time stamped, or that they you know, do have a terminal diagnosis. Are there things that you recommend, other than keeping a journal to kind of keep track of are they still doing okay? Are there other things that you recommend that people do to try to prepare themselves? I mean, I think that there are things that we can do so that when they do pass, we don't have that guilt. Where like, Man, I packed it all in there. So like, like everyday counted. So are there things that you recommend that people do that can kind of help ease that burden?
Erica Messer 7:30
Yeah, I think I think having a bucket list is a really great suggestion. You know, there's the IHCP. And, and all the veterinarians that are part of that organization are just amazing. And will help people through that time of palliative care and getting the special needs that their pets, their pets require. But, you know, Coleen Ellis, she's got, I think, a downloadable sheet with a bucket list of things and experiences you want to have with your pets. And it's something that we don't really think about ourselves until we're given some kind of, you know, timeline, and then we all kind of start to rush or so it's, it's good to do any time. But I have a friend and she, she had her dog had a spinal injury. And they quickly put together a list of things like well, my dog's never seen the snow. So we're going to make that happen. And, you know, on the last day, he's going to have nothing but peanut butter cups, like, she wrote down all the things that were going to make her feel good and have good memories. And that's really what we can do is, is do memory building. I think that's one of the strongest things that helped me in my own grief. You know, I had no planning, no warning. And yet, what pulled me out of those dark days was, hey, what, what was good? What, how lucky am I to I have found Wolfgang during the pandemic when there were no pets available. And I just started looking at the experiences that we had together and pulling up photos that made me crack up and videos. And it was like, that kind of thinking is what helped me through I think most. So creating those kinds of memories and writing them down now and starting to keep you know, a separate log of the crazy, wacky stuff my pet did or you know, this Christmas, I remember this and you know, here's all the Halloween costumes that Bella wore and, you know, just starting to to really compile that is very reassuring as well because we can read that any time right? Our pets aren't going to be with us forever, but the memories will be
Dr. Judy Morgan 9:50
I think that we you know, the great thing is we have these little computers that we walk around with now and we can take pictures of our pets Like, all the time, and I think I have something like 40,000 photos on my phone, it's just it's one of those things like you won't have a lot of animals. But I feel like you can't take too many pictures because you can't, that's just the easiest way to remember things. And I have had a lot of clients who have said, well, my dog got, or my cat got a terminal diagnosis, but he still looks and feels pretty good. So I called a photographer and had them come do a photo shoot, because I want to remember them doing their favorite things. I saw a picture the other day that someone sent of their dog racing through, like shallow water, so the water is splashing all up. And the dog has this big smile on his face. And he's running full out through the water. And I thought what a great memory because that's how this dog likes to live. And that's what she wants to remember is that dog living that life. So I think, you know, the more photos you get. And if you if you can't afford a professional photographer, have a friend come over with a good phone and take some really cool pictures, get them printed on canvas or something. Just memories are really, really important. So what kinds of things do you recommend that people do for self care for themselves? Because if you are dealing with an animal that needs a lot of care, you know, during that palliative and hospice care time, what things do you recommend for people to do?
Erica Messer 11:30
Yeah. So Wolfie's Wish has a support group, and we have people that are anticipating the loss of their pets, all the way to people that have lost pets years ago and never really healed from it. So I think finding some kind of group where you can relate to other people, such as maybe a Facebook group, we have that as well. But maybe there's one that you're already a member of. So you can pose questions, you can bounce things off people. And of course, if you can afford and find one on one counseling, that's also a great option. My friend, Dr. Jenn with Sage Paws does specifically that she consults with people to help them through the decision of end of life care. So there's a lot of different options. And I think for individuals, it's really a matter of sitting down and asking oneself, what do I do? What kind of things do I need to feel good? Is it a bath? Is it a walk? Is it a friend is it you know, distraction, and start to compile a little list of one's own self care practices, because it's really essential that those are fed and your soul is fed and nourished during this time because it's, it's stressful, it's expensive. It's you know, energy draining, to take care of a an elderly or senior animal, especially that's sick. And so to make sure that we are okay is really important. And it brings up this, this idea that it really struck with me that one of the in home euthanasia veterinarians, with the IHCP mentioned that it's really important for people to say goodbye, maybe a month too early than a day too late. And so I think this ties into the self care and that we've got to have people to support us in these hard decisions. And we've got to have people that can tell us objectively what, when is the right time, because we don't want to get stuck in our emotions and not be able to see clearly and have our pet be in any pain or suffering. So I think I think those are the real simple, basic things. And then of course, if you want to get down to nitty gritty, detailed things, well actually it's not nitty gritty detail, but we have affirmation cards, specifically for anticipatory grief, as well as regular pet loss grief. So, you know, I try to provide as many options and point people to the direction that will suit them. And that's what I'm building my resources page for is there's blog articles, there's podcast links, there's YouTube video links, there's, you know, our support group, and I think it's a great place to just get started. Whether you know, that you're gonna have to say goodbye. Or maybe it just happened and you need some help real quick like I did, and I didn't know where to go. So that's, that's what I'm really building Wolfie's Wish about is to help people plan and prepare but also be there for them when they are just like, oh my gosh, this just happened. How am I going to get through this?
Dr. Judy Morgan 14:41
Awesome. We're gonna take a quick break to hear from our sponsor. When we come back. I've got a story about loss that I have had to deal with recently. We'll be right back.
PRODUCT SPOTLIGHT 14:53
Are you looking for the ultimate one stop resource for canine hospice and palliative care? Then you need to check Our recent course An Integrative Approach to Hospice and Palliative Care for Dogs. There are three versions of this course. They also include live meetings and a certification. These informative courses are led by Dr. Judy and Michele Ellen, two experts in dog hospice. Dr. Judy covers the integrative veterinary medicine aspects of hospice. And Michele tackles the real life experiences and care expertise. The combination of these two skill sets has created the best online courses for knowledge on dog hospice. Sign up today. And as a thank you to our podcast listeners use code PODCAST27 for 20% off any of these hospice related courses found on DrJudyU.com
Dr. Judy Morgan 15:42
Welcome back, you're listening to Dr. Judy Morgan's Naturally Healthy Pets podcast. And I'm your host, Dr. Judy Morgan, my guest today, Erica Messer has started something called Wolfie's Wish. And it is a pet loss support company and they have all kinds of amazing resources to help us deal with the loss of our pets. And so we were talking about anticipatory grief and knowing that your pet is going to pass. And I recently had an experience that actually frankly, shocked me. So I was speaking with my therapist who I'm seeing for PTSD from a from an auto accident of all things. But in a question and answer list. One of the questions was, do you have anger when you think about how people have harmed you in the past? And I said, Yes. And the funny thing was, I didn't want to say angry, I wanted to say pissed off. And I was like, Well, I think those are the same things. So I guess I have to check that this is a problem for me. And so then I listed you know, my embezzling office manager. I'm over it, made me mad, you know, and there were a couple of other things. And then I also put Pookie. And so she, you know, briefly asked me what each of these things were. And I said, Oh, well, you know, Pookie was one of our dogs that I lost to veterinary malpractice of all things being a veterinarian. And, and so then I just kind of went on, you know, talking about something else. And a couple sentences later, she says, let's go back to Pookie. And I Pookie died, like five years ago, I lost it, crying hysterically. And I'm like, Oh, my God, I thought I thought I had handled this. I haven't, it's been five years. And that is how and I used to see this in my clients in the clinic, they would be on dog number three, and still grieving for dog number one that they lost 20 years ago, and not able to get past that I still get Christmas cards from people with the dog they lost 20 years ago on the card, not their current dogs. And so you know that people have not handled that. And that's why what you do is so important, because so many of us get stuck. And my way of dealing with it has been anytime it pops into my head. And I envision what happened and I'm angry, I immediately change this channel. And I go somewhere else and think about something else because I can't even face it in my brain. But so what she told me was to go home and write a letter to Pookie. Yeah, like, Ah ha. So and I posted it on Facebook, I said, I have to write a letter to Pookie and my followers know who Pookie is. And so you know, and they know that she passed a long time ago. And you know, so here we go all over again. And it's amazing how that can just get stuck in there. And so I actually didn't write the letter, I had a list of about 20 questions that I had to answer like, what are you angry about? What do you wish was done differently? What would you say to her now, if you had the chance? And by the time I had written out my answers to those 20 questions. I, I was sitting in the car by myself crying hysterically. Luckily, I was parked where there was no one around, but I was crying hysterically. And I got it. And it cleared. I can now like I could not have talked about this two weeks ago, without me crying here on air. And I finally got it because I had all this guilt. And I think that a lot of us get stuck in guilt. And particularly your cat fell off the roof things that are unexpected. I had a dog who drowned. There's a lot of guilt that is associated with us not being vigilant or us not being able to provide what they needed, whether we didn't have financial resources or medical resources or whatever. And I think a lot of that getting stuck revolves around feeling like you didn't do the right thing or you did something wrong or you know, you took them to the wrong doctor or you couldn't afford whatever they recommended or, and so I can tell you that doing those kinds of exercises, they may seem like oh, yeah, that's never gonna help. It was an it was almost a miracle for me. And it's interesting that I'm interviewing you, because this just happened to me very recently. So I think it is. And so do you deal with veterinary professionals with compassion fatigue? Like those veterinarians who are going and doing it, I have so many friends who all they do is in home euthanasia, or house call hospice and end of life practices. Do you get a lot of calls? Or do you have to help a lot of people? I mean, maybe the people that do that have a lot of self care that they do to keep themselves. Okay.
Erica Messer 20:53
Yeah, well, first of all, I'm so glad to hear of your of your clearing. And I wanted to say that, you know, one of the things that we have is a template to write a love letter, because it was so healing to me to laugh and cry and get all those memories down and say everything I wanted to say. So these are the these practices of the Wolfie's Wish grieving carts are really simple. But I myself was terrified. I said to myself, I'm going to get stuck here unless I do something serious. And I devoted every ounce of my being to healing. And, and I did it and I can talk about Wolfgang, I can laugh when I see a picture of him. And that's, that's what the company is about his wish is for all of us to heal, and be able to open our hearts to other pets again. And so I'm very happy to hear that you have progress. As it does stay with us forever.
Dr. Judy Morgan 21:45
It just gets stuck in there.
Erica Messer 21:48
My goal is to be able to help with the with the veterinary crisis of compassion fatigue, by having veterinarians differ our clients after euthanasia and say, Here's support, here's help for you. I can't, I'm not a psychologist, I'm not a counselor, I have a patient waiting, I care about you, and I loved your pet, but I have to go. Okay, so I want the public to know that the veterinarians are not there for us to be on there, crying on their shoulder for hours. That's, that's what I would love to do, I would love for you to come to me. And you know, I wish you could cry on my shoulder, but to have the resources and support and so that alleviates the veterinarians from having this extra burden. And, and that's why I'm a member of the IHCP and other organizations and crematory organizations to let them know first of all, hey, this is a thing now. We're not going to be the only ones. So you know, let's all get on board and help people find solutions and normalize pet loss grief, it is as valid if not more valid than any other type of grief. And I am on that my dad gets so scared when I say that publicly. And I'm like, Dad, it's okay. You can be scared for me. But it's true. And it's time to do something about it. And it's time to stop apologizing for our losing our minds when our dogs and cats and horses and rabbits die.
Dr. Judy Morgan 23:18
Yep. Yeah, it took me a good year to get over losing my horse. He had been my best friend for 20 years. And it took me a good year. So you know, these they are for me. They're family members. We've my husband and I took turns for almost a year sleeping on the sofa with our 18 and 19 year old dogs who were up and down all night long, you know, some cognitive dysfunction issues and was like, well, there's no way we're both going to be able to sleep in bed because these dogs are up and down every two minutes. So we took turns for over a year and the compassion fatigue can really set in and I can't imagine if we didn't have two of us splitting that if it was just one of us it would have been horrible.
Erica Messer 24:00
What was your horse's name?
Dr. Judy Morgan 24:04
Rocky. His real name was Autopilot. He truly was autopilot. And he would get so angry if you tried to tell him what to do because he was so well trained. I bought him completely, totally well trained. I wanted to get back in the show ring as an adult I had shown as a child and I wanted to get back in the show ring and I hadn't ridden in 15 years. And I bought him and literally he was totally autopilot and he was he was just amazing. So and as a matter of fact, I have not gotten another horse since he passed it's been quite a while and I really don't have a desire to ride anymore. because I'm never going to have him.
Erica Messer 24:51
What was special about Rocky to you? What made him be that horse where you know you don't need another one.
Dr. Judy Morgan 24:58
He was just See him because he was amazing to ride, he was so easy and so comfortable. But he also, I kept retiring him. And then we started a riding program, we had a farm, and we had about 100 students a week. And so he kept coming out of retirement and having to train all these little kids. I mean, he was just so forgiving, you know, and I would just look at and it's, it's kind of funny, because supposedly, I'm retired. And I keep coming out of retirement and keep working as well. So I think we're kindred souls is just like, yeah, we, you know, you don't get to quit. So, all right, so Wolfie's Wish won best new product award at SuperZoo. And is being distributed by crematories? Or is that the grieving cards that we were talking about?
Erin Messe 25:48
Yeah the grieving cards. And we had my mom and I, you know, we got together, she really had my back in doing this. And that was like our first American trade show. And I still I tell everyone, go big or, go home. That's my motto. That is my motto. It's like I'm all in. Let's see what happens. And so that what that did was gave me the confidence to continue growing Wolfie's Wish to continue pursuing pet loss support. And just, you know, sticking my neck out there and having this crazy idea. I don't have a business background. I don't have a pet loss background. I don't know. I don't have experience. But I have passion. And I have drive. And I really think that is that takes that takes a lot. That takes a that makes up for a lot.
Dr. Judy Morgan 26:37
Yes, yes, absolutely. I mean, everything. When you look at entrepreneurs, and you look at business models, who succeeds, it's people who have a passion and a purpose. And it's you believe in it so strongly that nothing stops you from doing it. And I think that's amazing. And I think this is really important for people. So WolfiesWish.com, we'll have the links in the show notes, but WOLFIESWISH.com. And I would check out the affirmation cards, the greeting cards, I have seen them. They're amazing. I think this is so important. I think they're I would bet that the majority of people who have owned pets are walking around with some unresolved grief and emotion that they like me, they don't even realize how deeply ingrained it is and how much it does affect you. And being able to remember, like I couldn't, I couldn't remember the good things about Pookie, because I was too stuck in every time I would see this horrible vision instead. And you know, one of the things I had to do was write down what were your favorite things about Pookie? What were your favorite things to do? What are some of your best memories? What were your you know? And when you start reframing and looking at things from a different perspective, you could get away from being stuck in that last moment that may not have been so wonderful. So Erica, thank you so much. Keep up the good work. And hopefully we'll run into each other at one of these big events because we all seem to travel in the same circles and I think what you're doing is really important
Erica Messer 28:17
Thank you very much thank you for your time and for sharing your experience.
Outro
Thanks for listening to another great Naturally Healthy Pets episode. Be sure to check out the show notes for some helpful links. And if you enjoy the show, please be sure to follow and listen for free on your favorite podcast app. We value your feedback and we'd love to hear from you on how we're doing. Visit DrJudyMorgan.com for healthy product recommendations, comprehensive courses, upcoming events and other fantastic resources. Until next time, keep giving your pet the vibrant life they deserve.
DISCLAIMER
The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. It is no substitute for professional care by a veterinarian, licensed nutritionist or other qualified professional. You're encouraged to do your own research and should not rely on this information as professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. Dr. Judy and her guests express their own views, experience and conclusions. Dr. Judy Morgan's Naturally Healthy Pets neither endorses or opposes any particular view discussed here.
