Intro 0:00
Welcome to the Naturally Healthy Pets podcast. Let's get to it!
Dr. Judy Morgan 0:05
Welcome to the Naturally Healthy Pets podcast. I'm your host Dr Judy Morgan and my guest today is actually one of my favorite people. Dr Barbara Royal is an integrated veterinarian, author, researcher, pet food and supplement formulator, international lecturer and professor, yet she doesn't sleep. I think she treats pets, wildlife and zoo animals, and considers Planet Earth to be her largest patient. In order to provide resources and education into the causes of health and longevity for her patients, she founded the Royal Treatment Veterinary Centers and the Royal Animal Health University, which now owns the Animal Diet Formulator, which is amazing, and College of Integrative Veterinary Therapies, great courses, she has devoted her career to improving the health span and lifespan of her many patients, their caregivers, as well as her colleagues in the veterinary profession. She shares time between her Chicago practices the waters of Lake Michigan and the soil of her organic farm. Thank you for being my guest today.
Dr. Barbara Royal
Yay. I love doing this. So fun.
Dr. Judy Morgan 1:10
So you have an organic farm?
Speaker 2 1:13
I do. I do. My husband's a farmer, so that's what he does. And so we're just, we have this weird life where we're constantly like, what we do is right outside, where I can see, right here in my driveway, is actually full of vegetables and flowers that my neighbors just come and get. He brings a truckload of stuff. And then I text them all and say, This is what's here. It's potatoes, it's sweet, you know, peas and, you know, whatever.
Dr. Judy Morgan
How big is your farm?
Dr. Barbara Royal
It's small. It's we're really only, we're only farming about an acre of it. Like, it's maybe two acres. But he, he just, like, he gladiolas, oh my gosh, you know, like, okay, there's, there's some Gladiolus from our farm, like, and there's just, like, they have a field full of Gladiolus. That's the coolest thing. And then you get your own the potatoes that taste like, but it also makes, it makes a difference for us, because we're very, obviously, very dedicated to the idea of keeping the soil and, you know, everything else healthy in the planet. So I'm very big on making sure that we're eating well, doing well, and that, you know, goes from my pets all the way to my family and everything else. So it's a good combo.
Dr. Judy Morgan 2:17
It absolutely isn't. It segues right into what we're talking about today. Is there a pet nutrition emergency? Which Yes, and we'll talk about why, but yeah, and insights from the I might be wrong method of veterinary care, which I think is amazing. I wish more veterinarians had the ability to say I might be wrong, or I might need to think outside the box, or look at this differently anyway. What is a pet nutrition, health emergency?
Dr. Barbara Royal 2:53
Well, so I started, you know, my the book I wrote years and years ago. I started the book with a story,
Dr. Judy Morgan 2:58
Which is awesome, by the way.
Dr. Barbara Royal 3:01
Thank you. I loved writing it. It was super fun. But the worst part was my sister told me I had to write about the fact that I had a fire in my house, and I lost two animals in the fire. And I was like, I'm never gonna be able to write about that. It's not gonna happen. And then I finally ended up doing it. And the reason I did it was not to make everyone sad or to scare everyone, but because it really it says something about us. To me, it's really an important thing to start the book with, and to say, you know, you have an emergency in your house. Your house is burning down, and you you're afraid, and you know your animals are in there, and that's what happened. I came back and I knew they were in there, and I did something that was so against common sense and wrong, right? I ran into the burning building, which I do not recommend anyone do, because if it were not for the firefighters that were already in there, I would be dead. Because I went in and it was just black as night. I could barely breathe. There was heat and smoke, and the floors were falling in. I mean, that kind of stuff, right? And I'm trying to find my pets, because I'm just like, Well, I'm a vet. I can do this. I can I can save them. I know that I can do this. And they carried me out of the building, right? But what it says to me is sort of two things. Is that, you know, in an emergency, we will really, most of us will do almost anything for our pets, and in a really serious case of fear or whatever, we'll even go past our common sense and do things that maybe don't make sense. And so those two things together have made sort of a marketing perfection for a lot of the bad actors out there. And I think that's what's happened to us. I mean, so I made a little list of the things that you know that we're most when we're motivated by fear, like fear of cardiac disease made us all, you know, every Well, not all of us, but a lot of people, suddenly stopped feeding any foods that didn't have grain in them. And it's a complete fallacy, has nothing to do with reality. The research hadn't, didn't even prove that, but everyone's like, Ah, I'm terrified of my dog having heart disease. So I'm going to feed, you know, food that has. Rain in it somehow. And none of it makes sense. I won't even go into it because it's so crazy. But the fear factor pushed everyone over the edge. You know, fear of animals getting sick from leftovers. We stopped feeding fresh food all together, because people started to spread the fear that, oh, your leftovers are making your animals sick, and these things are making... really, and then, and in the same thing of bacteria. We're afraid of bacteria, but our common sense says bacteria is, in fact, everywhere, like it's everywhere all over my hand right now, like, I'm sorry, but it is and and we're afraid of it. So we feed a dead, ultra processed food to our pets, because we're afraid of of bacteria. And so I just look at all this stuff, and I go, okay, that's one thing that we have to pay attention to and recognize. And take a minute when we're afraid of something, don't just knee jerk and fall into a trap that doesn't actually, if you think about it, it doesn't make sense, right? And so that emergency is there, and then also knowing there's an emergency out there with your pets, it may not seem that they're they're dying, it may not seem that they're right on the edge or they're in a fire, but their hair coats bad, they've got arthritis, they've got allergies, they've got cancer, little growths, they've got bad teeth, they just look sort of miserable. That's then we're like, oh, that they're just getting older. Like, that's an emergency! You need to do something about it. And the fact is, what we can do about it is something that sometimes people think it's, it's weird. We sort of go, it's too much. It's too much to think about food and an emergency, they don't make sense. Food seems so normal and pedestrian, and emergency seems so cool, you know, like, not even cool. But I mean, like, you know, you have an emergency, you're talking about it. And it's like everybody likes to think about, like, you know, I solved an emergency. Food is the answer. And so there's an emergency out there, and the answer can be something as common sense as providing the causes of health, providing great food. And that's what I think,
Dr. Judy Morgan 6:55
absolutely you know. And it's funny, because I was just doing an interview about, you know, chiropractic and physical therapy and all that kind of stuff. And she said something that is exactly your point. Is we, we don't see the smoldering fire. We see the Oh my gosh. Now everything's broken, and now we want to do something about it, whereas if we were proactive, and we said, Wow, how, how do I prevent, how do I put out the smoldering fire? How do I get rid of the embers, and how do I prevent this from being the house burning down,
Dr. Barbara Royal 7:37
right? And we're just not, we're not taught as veterinarians. We're not taught to think that way. We're taught about medicines and surgery and the things that treat disease that's there. We're not taught about the causes of health, and we're not taught to ever think we might be wrong, right? So we're taught like, You're the doctor, you're gonna you're finishing vet school, and you I have
Dr. Judy Morgan 8:00
I have a white coat, I know everything, and you cannot question me,
Dr. Barbara Royal 8:04
right? And so, like, one of my first cases was such a funny thing. It's a woman who had, like, nine Newfoundlands, and she brought them in, and she brought in three of them at a time, because obviously exam room size, right? So, but they were the most gorgeous dogs I'd ever seen. They were, you know, the older ones, you know, over 10, was was glowing with health. The puppies were vibrant. They were perfect. Their teeth was great. I was like, wow, they're amazing. Like, you live out in the country, I got it. Oh, okay, well, they're just, they're just really great health and perfect bill of health. They're walking out the door and she goes, Oh, and Barbara. I just just thought, for the record, I don't feed any kibble foods. I have actually a separate kitchen for my dogs, and I make them a fresh food. And I was like, Oh my gosh, Joan, get back in here. We've got to talk about this. This is terrible. You're going to kill your animals, I mean. And I am flying in the face of reality in front of me as a doctor, right? And all I'm thinking is, oh my God, I've got to get her on one of these kibble foods that we sell here because I'm fresh out of school. Yeah, and it took me a while, like it took me at least a year. I started studying acupuncture, and I started to go, could the food? Because she looked at me when I said that to her, she just looked at me, and she goes, Barbara, we're never going to talk about nutrition again. And she walked out.
Dr. Judy Morgan 9:23
Well, good for her, you know, I was the same way when people first started. I was same thing. Acupuncture was the thing, like, I don't know where you studied acupuncture, but I went to Chi, and in, like, the very first session, we're sitting there learning stuff, and we were learning kidney points, and somebody brought up prescription kibble, and they said, Oh, you mean killer diet. And I went, like, what do they mean by that? And that literally was the spark that sent me on the journey to where I am today. Was that one. Comment that somebody said, and I had been the prescription diet sales woman of the year, like I sold more of this stuff, because that was what we were taught was the best thing to do. And so after I started doing acupuncture, I had more holistic people coming to me, and they started asking me about feeding raw. And I used the old line, oh, bacteria. Oh, no, we can't do that. And I think six months later was when I bought the first barf diet for my dogs, and went, Oh, isn't this cool?
Dr. Barbara Royal 10:35
Wow, all right, so yeah, I think that's the deal for me too. I just, you know, it was like you just sort of suddenly, you just go, I think I was wrong, right? And if you can do that, the problem with it is, everyone's so invested in being right as a doctor that it's very hard because we're afraid of getting sued. We're afraid. I don't want to say to somebody like, for the past six months, I've been recommending this, and I now I think it's actually really toxic, sorry, or Yeah, didn't mean to do that, but now I sort of, I really embraced it, like I teach it to vet students. I teach this method when I'm when I'm lecturing to kids, they seem so confused. So what do you mean? You might be wrong. You're the professor, and I'm like, not only the professor, I'm the doctor. And guess what? Every I mean, I don't know how often it happens, I feel like it's, you know, maybe every day, maybe every week, I go, Oh my God, I didn't think about that. Why are we feeding three times a day to an animal that normally would hunt and eat once a day or every other day, you know? Why is that something that's helping us? Does it, you know? And then you have to look at it critically, like I've been just doing it that way, maybe, but maybe I'm wrong. And then all of a sudden, it changes how you think about nutrition, and it's the same thing with the kibble foods. I never looked at the ingredients because I just believed them. Then you look at the ingredients, you go, I think I might be wrong here, because
Dr. Judy Morgan 11:51
I think I might be wrong. I think there's, I think there are so many things, you know, not not just nutrition, but so many of the pesticides and chemicals and drugs that we're using for our animals that are counted to be the best of everything. And you know, you don't want to be that veterinarian who prescribed that chemical and then the animal has this really horrible, deadly reaction. The last thing you want to do is go, oh, I might have been wrong. I might have killed your dog, right? Or I might have killed my own dog. You know, that's a that's a really hard position to be in. Nobody wants to be in that position. One, the guilt is overwhelming. 2. the fear of being sued, the fear of being lambasted on social media. There are a lot of reasons why no one would want to say, Oh, I might be wrong,
Dr. Barbara Royal 12:45
particularly, particularly if you're fighting an industry that's so big,
Dr. Barbara Royal 12:49
so if you're going to say something that's outside of the norm. So right now, I mean, I don't know if I can talk about this without crying, so I'm going to try. But I had a client that came in not too long ago who wanted a monoclonal antibody injection, and I am not a big fan, and we went through a little dance about it, and he was very he said, I'm just so concerned. She really, she itches like mad. She looks terrible, and I hate to have her do this. And I already had it at my other vet, because he was just a newer client, and already had this a few times. And I really, really, really want it. And I, you know, it was early days. It was, you know, not too long. I mean, it's, it's been a while now, but I still feel it right here. I was like, I haven't heard a lot of terrible things about it yet. It's, you know, newer. It's, seems sort of, I guess maybe you know, if you really want to do and he was absolutely adamant. And I knew not to do it, but I let him do it, and so we we let him have it, and the dog was dead within 24 hours, and I loved her. I'm gonna cry, wow. Anyway, I loved her so much because I had only seen him three times, and she was this beautiful dog. So those kinds of things. Now I have to say, don't do those things. I was wrong to let that happen. But it's like,
Dr. Judy Morgan 14:10
and there, there are a lot of times, though, when the clients are really adamant, no, I've done this before. I want to keep doing this, and we know it's wrong, and unfortunately, that one had a very sad ending. We need to take a break to hear from our sponsor. We'll let Barbara get a tissue. We'll be right back.
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Dr. Judy Morgan 16:07
Welcome back. You're listening to the Naturally Healthy Pets podcast. I'm your host. Dr Judy Morgan and my guest today. Dr Barbara Royal, I think is one of the most amazing veterinarians ever to walk this planet. What you really I mean, you just you care so much, obviously by your story, and you not only care about your patients, but you also care about the humans. On the other end of the leash, you care about the planet. You care about the educational part. And, I mean, it's just, it's a it's something that, if we could all kind of come at what we're doing as veterinarians with that mindset, we we would all be so much better off. And I think we would preserve our own sanity a lot more as well. Because, you know, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. And I think as veterinarians, when we keep prescribing prescription diets and kibble that's that's dead food, and, you know, then treating with steroids and non steroidal anti inflammatories and monoclonal antibodies and all these things to put out the fire of inflammation in our pets, and that we expect them to get better when we haven't changed the groundwork to help them heal. No wonder veterinarians are frustrated, no wonder clients are frustrated. No No wonder everybody's quitting
Dr. Barbara Royal 17:42
well. And I do feel like we're just such a unique profession, right? So people who are veterinarians, you know, they wanted to be a veterinarian since they were six, right? And what that meant to me, like, what it meant to me was when I figured when I came out of vet school, I was going to be almost like a superhero to myself, like, that's who I envisioned. Like, I wanted to be James Harriet. I could, I could, I could handle anything like, it seems crazy. No, no, I got that. And to have it like when I'm out practicing, somebody put oven mitts on my hands, and somebody gave me sort of half vision glasses, and now I'm supposed to function and do do good. You feel frustrated and sad, but also to your core, it's not like, you know, I'm sure people who are bankers are happy being bankers, but maybe they didn't want to be a banker since they were six. It's soul killing, to feel like you're not making any headway towards health, because everything we're doing in just the background, really, it's degrading health, and that's a problem. And so the nutrition part of it, though, has been, you know, this it's, it's absolutely but it has, it has, sort of, for me, it just sort of trampolined me into the next thing. And the next thing, you know, it's grooming products, and what are we using to to brush with? And then what's happening with teeth, and why are we not letting them chew on fresh, raw bones? And what, what? Why are all these other things happening? And I just, I just look at all of it. I go, it's just, I have to go back to common sense and say, Oh, I might be wrong there too.
Dr. Judy Morgan 19:06
Might be wrong. Yes, yes. What about that? You don't hear these are the prescription shampoos that we should be using. And then we look at the list of chemicals on those they read very similar to the list of chemicals on the processed food. It's like, oh. And then we just throw more drugs at them to kill the microbiome on the skin, in the gut and and we take away their immune system and go, Okay, now get better.
Dr. Barbara Royal 19:29
You can do this. Yeah, we just basically made you into a two dimensional little beast. Good luck with that. It's awful. And so I just, I do feel like, you know, people say, oh, you know, we get when my dog gets older, I'll get a little more careful with the food, but I won't do it when they're young. I'm like, they're building their bodies, you know, they're building their immune system, you have, we have to think about it throughout, even if you don't see a huge change in it, you know, like when I was 20, I used to be able to eat, you know, three musketeers bars on weekends, and I would, I was fine. But you know, you can do
Dr. Judy Morgan 20:01
I would hate to tell you what my diet was. Through vet school, oh my gosh
Dr. Barbara Royal 20:08
We should know better. As as you know, as practitioners, we in the health profession should know better, and we don't.
Dr. Judy Morgan 20:17
But, but again, nobody ever talked about food. You know, what we were, what we were taught nutrition wise, I mean, and I've been out 40 years, so I am a dinosaur, but what we were taught in our internal medicine class was okay for kidney failure, you feed this prescription diet. There was no talk about fresh food. It was all, Oh, you've got to restrict protein really early on, and now we know that restricting protein actually kills them, which that, by the way, that myth is still flying around out there strongly. It's still strongly there. Oh, you need and I'm like, Really, you're going to take your 12 year old dog who's muscle wasted, and feed them a 9% protein diet, because their SDMA is 15 instead of 14. Like, OMG,
Dr. Barbara Royal 21:07
as a doctor, we, as a doctor, we should know better. You know, I can understand people listening to social media. You don't really know better. You're trying your best. It's animals. They seem weird. It's scary. It's like, is this a balanced diet, or is this not? It seems really scary. Like, how do I know? I know? I better go with the big companies, because they're going to know the best. It's like, really, do they really have your best interests at heart? Are we thinking with common sense here? And that's the problem. But yeah, we're crazy.
Dr. judy Morgan 21:33
You know what? I just read an article and oh god, we posted it, something about the pharmaceutical industry spends 68% of their money on advertising, and, like, 6% on R&D, and it's like, wow. yeah, I forget. I don't have the statistic exactly right, but it makes sense. It's yeah, it makes sense. And, you know. So this the same thing we see with food companies, like their money is spent on advertising. It's not spent on the ingredients that are going into the products. I almost feel like, if you're not seeing expensive advertising on TV for a pet food company, they're probably doing a better job,
Dr. Barbara Royal 22:22
right? I tend to agree with that. Also. I feel like one of the things that we do is that we are paying attention to what we're measuring. So what they're going to be doing is spending a lot of their time measuring how much money they're getting in whether the marketing is working, whatever they're not measuring how well does this food, you know, work in an animal? How? How much health is that food providing for animals? What's happening to the longevity of the animals that are eating their food? Are they coming down with different problems? They're not. They don't want to measure that, because you don't really want to see that, because then that means you're going to have to make a food that's more expensive to make. You're going to have to pay attention to the ingredients and the sourcing. And sourcing matters. I don't, you know, people are like, Oh, it doesn't, you know, no, no, I just, I get the cheapest thing from the supermarket because it's a dog. Like that would be okay. 60 years ago, because we didn't add all of the things we add now to foods to make them, you know, red they're getting adding food coloring to make a meat look red. They're adding all these things. It's like the things that are out there now that are cheaper have way more chemicals in them, and that's a problem.
Dr. Judy Morgan 23:30
Oh, yeah. Well, and nutrient density in the food that we're growing now based on our soil erosion and nutrient depletion in the soil. I mean, it's just it's impossible, which is why doing something like your farm, and what I'm doing with my farm is, is what we need to do if we want to get actual nutrients in our food. So what are some of your favorite shortcuts for health through nutrition? What can people do? I've got, so let's say, Okay, I've got five big dogs I'm feeding this, you know, what I consider to be a good quality kibble, because that's what I can afford. The biggest pushback I get from people is it's going to cost too much. It's going to be time consuming. I've done lots of videos to prove that it doesn't have to cost more. But what do you tell people?
Dr. Barbara Royal 24:18
two things. One is, I try to change the conversation altogether. I just say how, first of all, how can it be that cheap? you've got, you've got three big dogs. You're feeding carnivores. How can it cost you very, very little to feed them? Because feeding them is the most important health decision you're making, and I would rather have you spend it on food than on a veterinarian. So I try really hard to just start that seed in the head. It doesn't help the situation in terms of finances that, you know, in a straightforward way, but if people are thinking that way, then they start to realize where they're putting their money in what bin. And then I try to also say, if it's going to be that cheap, then somebody in that company that's selling you something for really cheap is going to be they're going to be either cheating or. Or subverting something in some way, it's going to happen. And so the problem with that is either they're paying their workers badly, or the animals are going to suffer somehow, or they're going to do additives and chemicals that don't make any sense to the food, or they're not formulating Well, something is wrong with that food, so you're spending money out of your important like, I work hard for my money. I want my money to go to somebody who's doing the right thing for the right reasons. Why not? We should be voting with our money. And so I try to get people thinking that way, like, Don't give your money to people who are doing the wrong thing for the wrong reasons. Every day for your pet, it's just a bad idea, and most of it's just wasted. You may as well just throw it out the window. You know, 50 cents on every dollar that you're spending on this cheap food is really in garbage and bad stuff. So I try to do that. Then the next thing is say, okay, okay, you have big dogs and you really have a limited budget, but you do buy food, and leftovers are great. People forget. Leftovers are amazing. So, you know, when you have leftovers, don't throw them away, don't have a, you know, whatever. Give them to your animals. And if there's something that's appropriate for a dog, great if you're eating Twinkies and, you know, Cheetos all the time, maybe, maybe don't, but that might encourage you to eat better too, like eat real eat a little bit better food, and give your, you know, meat leftovers and things like that, in a reasonable amount so you don't end up making them, you know, sick with suddenly a huge amount of leftover fat cuttings from a steak or something. But leftovers are amazing. And then there's also foods you can just buy that you can get periodically on sale or whatever, eggs, sardines, different vegetables like, you know, broccoli, um, green beans, things like that, that you can sort of just throw in, even lettuces and kale, things like that. I love mushrooms.
Dr. Judy Morgan 26:42
We bought we started our having chickens, originally for the dogs. We got six chickens because I said I want fresh eggs for my dogs so that I can add that fresh food to their bowl. And so now our flock is up to, like 30, and we supply eggs for our employees and us and our pets, like everybody's eating eggs. So I mean, there are so many things that you can do. I read something a study, I think, was a town in Belgium where every family in the city was given two or three chickens, and it eliminated all of the waste, kitchen waste scraps. Because, I mean, that's where all of our kitchen waste goes. It goes to the chickens. And so it eliminated, it lowered the garbage pickup in the city by a huge amount, and everybody had fresh eggs. And it ended up being like this great experiment. And you know, for everybody, it's like everybody loved it, and the chickens were great pets and, and so, yeah, you know, there are so many little, little things that we can do. I mean, I'm not saying everybody has to have chickens, but for us, it made a huge difference to the point where we keep multiplying the flock.
Dr. Barbara Royal 27:59
It's really nice to be able to add in these leftovers and add in things. And if you have, like, for example, I have the animal diet formulator, which we talked about, I can actually tell my clients. They're like, Okay, well, I usually eat these kinds of things. Give me just give me a list of the things that you might have leftovers in, and then I can put that in the animal diet formulator. I can say where that might unbalance or balance better a kibble food or whatever, because I have all of that information in the formulary. And so when we're looking in there, we're looking at these ingredients, I can tell them, you have this much leeway with this much of your fresh vegetables, your fresh foods, even some starches, even some things. You can play with those and have it still have a balanced diet and keep them healthier, because there's fresh stuff in there. So having, and now I have clients that have the animal diet formulatr because it's inexpensive for an individual to own. So I'm not doing it as a marketing thing as much as, like we get so scared about, you know, oh, should we be doing this? Is it ruining everything? Whatever? No, it adds good. And we can, we can figure that out too. So anyway, it can be amazing,
Dr. Judy Morgan 29:02
yeah, well, and studies have shown that it was a study done in Europe, but 90% of the canned foods made by the big pet food companies that they tested were not up to AAFCO standards, and 60 some percent of the kibble foods did not meet AAFCO minimum standards. So if you think that by buying pet food from a process, highly processed food from a big pet food company, means that you're guaranteed to get a complete and balanced diet according to AAFCO standards, you're right. No, it does not work that way. So same with the bacteria. Yeah. And if your veterinarian says, oh, you can't give him table scraps. It'll unbalance his food. Forget it. It's a myth. It's a lie.
Dr. Barbara Royal 29:46
You can balance around, like, again, if you're changing things up. I'm a big believer in saying, okay, it's okay. We can balance by by doing some variety. I do feel we should know that as veterinarians, I should know like, I should be like, oh, you know what I can tell from what you're. And you're not going to have a source of iodine in here, and that's going to be a problem for you. So I should be able to help but, but people can look at it, but changing up what you do, where you get your food from, all of that's amazing. And if you think that fresh food is dangerous because of bacteria, look at all the recalls for ultra processed kibble food for resistant and scary bacteria like that's not safe. You can't put your hand kids hand in a bunch of kibble and let them throw it to the dog and not wash their hands. That's crazy tunes. So, you know, there's a lot out there that we again, fear the emergency. We have to pay attention, but we can certainly do better. We can certainly do better with the causes of health and nutrition.
Dr. Judy Morgan 30:40
Absolutely. Barbara, we are out of time. Thank you so much for your time. Today. We always have so much fun, and I think we could sit here for eight hours. So you know we will be seeing each other soon. For anybody who is interested in more information, Barbara has like, a million things, but there's Royal Vet, the Animal Diet Formulator, and CIVT, which is the educational platform, some really cool courses for veterinarians and pet owners. We'll put all the links in the show notes. Barbara, thank you very much. Keep on, keeping on you're doing a great job out there.
Dr. Barbara Royal 31:14
You too. More power to us.
OUTRO
Thanks for listening to another great Naturally Healthy Pets episode. Be sure to check out the show notes for some helpful links. And if you enjoy the show, please be sure to follow and listen for free on your favorite podcast app. We value your feedback and we'd love to hear from you on how we're doing. Visit DrJudyMorgan.com for healthy product recommendations, comprehensive courses, upcoming events and other fantastic resources. Until next time, keep giving your pet the vibrant life they deserve.
DISCLAIMER
The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. It is no substitute for professional care by a veterinarian, licensed nutritionist or other qualified professional. You're encouraged to do your own research and should not rely on this information as professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. Dr. Judy and her guests express their own views, experience and conclusions. Dr. Judy Morgan's Naturally Healthy Pets neither endorses or opposes any particular view discussed here.
