Speaker 1 0:00
Welcome to the naturally healthy pets podcast. Let's get to it. Hello, everyone. I'm Dr Judy Morgan. You're listening to Dr Judy Morgan's naturally healthy pets podcast. My guest today is Dr Todd Cooney. He is a practicing homeopathic veterinarian with nearly 40 years experience, though the first 20 years was allopathic, he's done things both ways, and can say the holistic, natural way is by far most excellent. I like that most excellent. Now he is eager to spread the word whenever possible and help people take their animals along the natural path to good health. Dr Cooney, thank you for being my guest today.
Unknown Speaker 0:41
Thank you. My pleasure. Judy, so
Speaker 1 0:46
homeopathy. How did you get started in homeopathy? Because you practiced allopathic medicine for 20 years. So something
Speaker 2 0:55
happened? I did, yeah, something happened, exactly, well, I was getting a little disgruntled with allopathic medicine, and I wasn't sure why. You know, I just was getting kind of burnt out close to the 1819, year mark. And I guess that's pretty typical, I mean, of a lot of vets from what I what I got burnt out at the 10 year mark. So yeah, maybe I was burned out then, and I just was stubborn. Yeah, I had a real health issue myself, a serious health crisis. And I in in seeking treatment for myself. I I was seeing a lot of specialists and, you know, experienced doctors, and nothing was really helping me, and they, all they could do was try one drug after another, and I was getting really frustrated, and the main problem I was having was seizures, and so I couldn't really work very well. I couldn't drive it was really affecting my life. So my sister recommended a Chinese medicine acupuncture doctor to me, and I went and saw her one day, and not really thinking, you know, very high hopes about it, but to my amazement, it helped a lot. And after the first visit, I felt like a new person, almost. And so I kept going back and did that over the next year or so, thought, well, I'll take acupuncture training myself and I'll just, I'll put this, I'll work this into my practice. So the course was full and a long waiting list. So I was looking for other options. I thought, I'll take something holistic. I don't I don't really care what it is. This point, I was just ready to change paths. So I found the homeopathy course of Dr Pitt, Karen and and they had one opening left for the upcoming class. So I signed up, and I didn't even really know what homeopathy was, except from a little bit of experience I had in Germany when I was in the military. But so I took the course and wondered what in the world I was doing, even as I was taking the course. But after about three or four months, I started using it my practice, and started seeing it working in a few cases, and thought, Okay, well, I'll stay with this. You know, this is, this is going to be worth it. I think, yeah, and it has been. Now, you know, I can hardly think. I can hardly use my allopathic brain anymore. I I have trouble remembering drug dosages and things like that, because I think of remedies all the time. And so, yeah, it's been a great
Speaker 1 3:22
it's really interesting when you, when, absolutely, when you, when you learn something like homeopathy or Chinese veterinary medicine, it's, it's almost like learning to speak a new language. And, you know, I've got friends who, I've got friends who went to vet school in like Italy or Germany, and I'm like, Okay, do they teach in English? No, they teach in Italian. They teach in German. Did you know Italian before you went over there? No, how do you possibly go through vet school not even speaking the language you're being taught in? But I feel like, you know, when I, when I first started learning Chinese medicine. We're talking about damp and heat and wind and and spleen, spleen, you know, that's that little brown thing that sits next to the stomach or not.
Speaker 2 4:15
And you have to unlearn so totally different, unlearn your allopathic thinking. You have to get away from that. And Dr Pitcairn told us that veterinarians are the hardest people to teach homeopathy too. He said he'd much rather teach a lay person, because they don't have all this baggage that they've learned in vet school. You know?
Speaker 1 4:32
That is interesting. That is very true. Yeah, yeah, I could definitely see that. So one of the things that you've incorporated into your practice. And what we want to talk about today is the use of nosodes, and I'd like you to explain what those are, because we're going to talk about the use of nosodes instead of vaccines for parvovirus. And I know that people just freak out. Now thinking, I absolutely have to do this. So I have a good friend who is fairly holistic, but could not bring herself to not vaccinate her puppy, and including, including, you know, the set of Parvo vaccines instead of distemper vaccines and Lyme, because she lives in a high tick area. And of course, at nine months of age, the dog has meningio encephalitis. And I'm like, just I told you, don't go with all these vaccines. Go with all these vaccines. It's going to cause trouble. And shocking, we have an autoimmune disease after all these vaccines. So, yeah, shocking, shocking. So how do you move away from this in your practice? Because your practice, you do a lot of homeopathy, and I don't think you do. You give any vaccines at all.
Speaker 2 5:59
The only vaccine we even have is rabies. We have that in the practice. We don't. We don't even buy any of the other vaccines. Haven't really since about 2009 we just stopped. I stopped ordering them. I said, Well, I'm going to be tempted to use them once a while if they're in the fridge, you know, if I have them, someone's going to talk me into it. And so I just, I just went cold turkey and quit buying the vaccines, except for rabies. And the only reason that I would rather have a practice where I don't give rabies vaccine, but, you know, people need that a lot of times as a legal requirement for other things, grooming, boarding, training,
Speaker 1 6:41
traveling. How do you get around? How do you get around the grooming, boarding, daycare with distemper and Parvo requirements and Bordetella requirements?
Speaker 2 6:51
Well, we use a we use a no so from Hahnemann labs and nosodes are just homeopathic medicines that are made from disease. So like a distemper, nosode is made from distemper. A dog that had distemper Parvo is made from Parvo. They take all the gross stuff from the animal, the vomit, the diarrhea, the blood, and they take all that and make the nosode with that. So it actually includes the animal's immune response to the disease along with the agent, the disease agent. So it really is a pretty holistic approach, because it contains all that. It's not just like there are taught toads, taught toads are remedies made from a vaccine, and that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about a no So, which is made from the disease. So anyway, to get around that requirement, or to try to get around it, we use, we use combination nosodes. So our combination nosode for a dog has distemper, Parvo, hepatitis, kennel cough, lepto, influenza and rabies combined all in one, no so and so on the on the printout for the client. If they come in, they get that on the printout, it says, dhlp, kennel cough and influenza. We leave off the rabies because we don't want to cause confusion, and it doesn't count as a rabies vaccine anyway, so we just don't, we don't put that on the description, but then the client can take that and say, Here, if my dog had his dhlp board of telekinel, cough. And it's not being sneaky, really, because on the page, it says it's a no so it Yeah, so we're honest about it. Some of the some of the places, will frown on it, and they'll say, you know, we can't accept that. And sometimes they'll want to ask me more about it. They'll have questions, and then I can, I can point them to studies where nosodes have have excelled above vaccines and treating diseases. There's been a lot of lot of examples over the last 200 years, and especially in the last about 80 years, has been a lot of examples. So yeah, it's easy, including my experience with Fargo, which, you know, as no one's really published much about that yet, and I intend to publish it eventually. I'm waiting till I get enough numbers. I want my numbers be high enough that AVMA would have to say, Okay, well, we might at least give you a letter to the editor article. You know.
Speaker 1 9:24
Well, you know, sometimes those letters to the editor are taken as factual studies. You know, that's how we got the whole DCM grain free debacle. I know.
Speaker 2 9:33
I know. Well, I don't, I don't think they would let it publish as a scientific, you know, retrospective study or something, but I don't know. Who knows.
Speaker 1 9:44
So who knows. So you've been using no so you got rid of vaccines completely, like 15 years
Unknown Speaker 9:50
ago. Yeah? Except for rabies. Yeah.
Speaker 1 9:53
How? Except for rabies. So how, how? How are you treating these puppies? Come in so you're giving them. Do they all get the no sods?
Speaker 2 10:04
Most, I would say 95% of them, plus. Because if someone comes in like they call in, they say, Hey, I have a new puppy. He needs to come and get his puppy shots. We say, Okay. And usually, over the phone, they'll say, Well, you know, we have a, we have a puppy wellness package you might be interested in that includes all the nosodes that they need, a deworming if they need that, and supplements, usually standard process. So it's a package deal, and they get everything at a discount. And so most people will go with that, whether or not they know what a no so it is, you know. And then they come in, and if they don't know what it is, we'll talk about it and explain it to them so they're not confused. You know, because a lot of folks, you know, if they are expecting a vaccine, they're surprised when you come in with a dropper bottle and you just put a few drops in the mouth of the puppy and go there. There you go. That's it. And it's our new girls home and do this at home. It seems too simple, you know. And at first, I had a lot of clients that kind of balked at the idea, because, how does this really work, you know? How does this work? And and I had, I have the same doubts in my mind, because I hadn't had any experience with it. I was I was going by the word of other homeopaths who had done it before me and had good experiences, and I was trusting their their word.
Speaker 1 11:30
So you've been doing this for quite a while. We're going to take a break, but when we come back, I want to talk about the the results that you're getting, the number of cases that you're seeing, the outcomes of those cases of Parvo in these dogs that are getting no sods instead of vaccines. Stay tuned. We'll be right back.
Unknown Speaker 11:48
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Speaker 3 11:49
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Speaker 1 12:54
Welcome back. I'm Dr Judy Morgan, and this is the naturally healthy pets podcast. My guest, Dr Todd Cooney and I are discussing using no sodes Instead of vaccinations, and we're talking about Parvo and we're talking about puppies. But are you? I would think you're doing the same thing for kittens as well. They're getting no sodes Instead of vaccines as well. Correct, correct, yes. All right, so you've been doing this for about 15 years. How often do you see cases of Parvo in these puppies that and I'm sure some puppies come to you that already have some vaccines on board, depending on where they were purchased, the breeder may have given them, the pet store may have given them. So do you see a difference in the two populations?
Speaker 2 13:41
There can be a difference, yeah, the, the biggest risk with puppies that have been vaccinated is we found they're the ones more likely to get sick with barbell, and if they do get sick, they're more likely to die compared to the unvaccinated group. And we've, we've proved that by comparing the numbers over the years. And it's pretty striking. You know, it's not, it's not a small difference. It's not like 50% to 40% it's like 100% survival with those puppies and 25% survival with vaccinated puppies. So it's, it's pretty drastic. And
Speaker 1 14:17
do you see a difference in what age that vaccine was given, because, for those who want to vaccinate, what I went to in my practice, because I'm not a homeopath, and I didn't do no set, so it's but I think I would now, we would, if at all possible, if the puppy came unvaccinated, we would wait until that puppy hit about 14 weeks. Yeah, and I would give them their distemper at 14, a single distemper and then a single Parvo at 16, and that one vaccine would give us much stronger titers than the poor animals that had vaccines every two weeks, starting at six weeks, craziness,
Speaker 2 14:58
right? Yeah. And that's I. Yeah, that's a much better way, I think, to do the vaccines, if you're going to do them, is just to split them up and wait till the puppy's a little bit older with the nosodes. The nice thing is, we can start at any age, you know. We can start when they're eight weeks old. We can start when they're four months old. We can start if they've had vaccines or if they haven't had vaccines. It doesn't really matter, you know, because the nose of works so differently than the vaccine, even a pup who's been through a full series of puppy shots can still benefit from nosodes, I think because they they enable the natural immunity to be a lot stronger than a vaccine does. A vaccine really interferes with natural immunity, and that's been proven a lot in especially in measles and children. They've done a lot of studies with that, proving that, you know, vaccine immunity is is really inferior to natural immunity. And with COVID That that was pretty obvious too.
Speaker 1 15:54
Yeah, I just read a read a big, long book on natural immunity with COVID versus vaccine immunity. And it's really interesting, the number of people that have had vaccines that repeatedly keep getting COVID versus and I'm going to knock on wood, I haven't had it. I think I've been exposed a few times, and I think natural
Unknown Speaker 16:16
immunity stay in.
Speaker 2 16:20
I think I've had it too. I've never done the test, or if I have, either if I have been tested for traveling or something, it's always been negative, but that was when I was not having symptoms. So, yeah, so I don't know. So
Speaker 1 16:33
do you with these animals that you give no sods? Will they develop a positive titer? If somebody wanted to do a titer test. Have you done any studies with that?
Speaker 2 16:44
No, and I that's one of the things I would like to do down the road. I think it'd be interesting to tighter these pups.
Unknown Speaker 16:53
I think I would, I have,
Speaker 1 16:57
I have talked to some people who have, and they're, they're getting amazing titers, you know, like one to 2000 instead of one to 80.
Speaker 2 17:04
Yeah, yeah. And it could be, it could be because of a stronger natural immune system. You know, natural immunity, the the nose of itself, doesn't trigger a titer. It's not like a vaccine, where you give a vaccine, and especially with the adjuvant added to the vaccine, it it sparks a strong response, which, which gives you a titer so But Dr Pitcairn has said over and over again in our meetings, and he he really has to pound this into the head of some of our younger members. Last time at our meeting last February, he got right in someone's face and he said titers don't reflect immunity. And and he's a PhD immunologist, so I would take his word for it. And, yeah,
Speaker 1 17:48
I think the big reason we're stuck on titers is because boarding, grooming daycare.
Speaker 2 17:55
Well, yeah, it's an alternative vaccines that conventional people are comfortable with right in they want some sort of proof, yeah, well, and they also want some sort of revenue for because vaccine Well, vaccine hesitancy has become a big thing. The AVMA even addresses it now in their journals. You know, vaccine hesitancy the problem, and what are we going to do about it? So what they're not doing about it is educating veterinarians on why people are vaccine hesitant. They're just they're just doubling down on telling people they need to vaccinate. That's that's their approach, and I think it's the wrong approach, honestly, but I think they should be questioning, why are all these people questioning vaccines? And it's not really all of a sudden. It's been going on since vaccines started with smallpox.
Speaker 1 18:45
Yeah, you know it's true, and I think that, like you with your your illness and going to allopathic doctors, and you know, more drugs, more tests, more this, and nothing's getting better, and so so so many of our pet owners are dealing with the same thing. I'm in and out of the veterinary office every other week. They're still itching, they still have yeast infections, they still have diarrhea, they they're still not thriving. And you know, then they get on the internet and people like us talk
Speaker 2 19:20
and they go, we know why. We know why they're sick. Yeah,
Speaker 1 19:24
maybe the 27 vaccines that I was made to give the animal something to do with this.
Speaker 2 19:31
Yeah? Well, in the third session of my my homeopathy training was, was five sessions. The third session dr d Blanco, who lives in New Mexico and practices she's one of Richard's pig Karen's early students. She came in to be a guest lecturer that time, and the first thing she said that session was all about vaccinosis, which is the disease caused by vaccine. So we were introducing topic of vacnosis. And she said, Hi, my name is di Blanc. Go, everything you see in practice is vaccinosis. I said, Wow, that's kind of a blanket statement. Okay, well, but I think she's right. I think it's hard to find something well, okay, if a dog goes out and get hit by a car, hit by a car, that's maybe not vaccinosis, unless the vaccine made him, you know, crazy, he ran in the road, but But literally, most chronic diseases probably trace to autoimmunity, which is most autoimmunities traced to vaccines. My vet school did a study on that in the 90s called the Purdue vaccine study. And you can Google it if you can still find the study, because it's hard to find now, but they proved that vaccines caused autoimmunity 100% of the time, not not 95 not 98 100% and unvaccinated animals, vaccinated with placebo, 0% Developed autoimmunity zero. So when it's 100 to zero, you can fire. You don't need a statistician, you know, you don't need to hire a statistician. You can do that yourself. I can figure that one
Speaker 1 21:09
out. Yeah, that's, that's pretty stark, but that's what you're seeing in your your practice with, you know, puppies given no sodes, the very few that do develop Parvo, how many did you? Did you say you've had?
Speaker 2 21:23
Well over the years we've had, we've had, I'd say probably 80 or so. But most of them were before.
Unknown Speaker 21:34
Most of them were before 2014,
Speaker 2 21:38
and that was about two, about four years into using nosodes 2016 we changed our dosing protocol to giving the nosode weekly. Before that, we were giving it monthly or twice every two weeks. So once we changed the weekly, the cases really bottomed out, really dropped, and that's when we started hardly seeing cases at all. And we haven't really seen a case, but I think we saw one earlier this year, but we hadn't seen others since 2018 in the puppies that were taking the No So, and that's really whether they've been vaccinated or not. So,
Speaker 1 22:15
so you're giving that weekly. Are the clients giving the No soda at home?
Speaker 2 22:18
Yes, they are. Yeah, yeah. We, we, we make it up in a dropper bottle in a water solution, and we, we show them how to do it. And the hardest part is keeping the dropper clean, you know, because puppy wants to lick the dropper and you will drop the drop it on the floor. And so keeping the dropper clean is important to keep the solution in good shape. But we show them how to do it, and we say, just do this once a week till at least six months. You can go longer than that, if you want. And,
Unknown Speaker 22:49
and that's the end of it. I mean, that's and
Speaker 1 22:51
so they do that when they're youngsters. Then. Is it something? You know? Of course, the veterinary community wants everybody to come in every year and get boosters on everything. Yeah. Do you have to do that with the no sods, or is this, once you get through that six months, you're you're good to go forever? Yeah,
Speaker 2 23:08
they seem to be good to go after that. We don't. Some people want to do it on their own and do like a yearly booster. Some people will do that, especially the combination No. So they'll give that once a year because it, I think it makes them feel more comfortable. You know, they're well, you know, their dog is hunting, or their dogs boarding, and so the boarding people, especially, usually have to give it because of the Bordetella. So they'll meet that Bordetella requirement with the No So, but really, I mean, Dr Ron Schultz, he he proved pretty much that dogs have solid immunity by the time they're a year old to just about everything. And they don't, they don't need more stimulation. So
Speaker 1 23:51
So we kind of get that wish we could get that through the the shelter and rescue. Oh, I know medicine people, you know, it's like, if a dog comes into the shelter and it stays there for a while as an adult, it's going to get another whole series of vaccines. It's not even one. And I rarely get dogs from a shelter, but my, one of mine that I got, he, he was a old, blind, supposedly old, blind, deaf Cocker, yeah, and landed in the shelter, and who's going to adopt an old, blind, deaf Cocker, except for crazy people like me? But poor guy, when we got it, so when we got him, I looked at the paperwork and it's like, oh my gosh. He got bravecto, he got heart guard, he got every vaccine known to dog kind. It's like really. And by the way, he wasn't 13. He was probably like six. He had juvenile cataracts so he couldn't see. But you know, it's just these dogs are in such stressful situation, and then we pound their immune system with something that's going to take a couple of weeks to take effect. Anyway. So it just I, and I don't know how we change shelter medicine, I think that's a long run.
Speaker 2 25:08
Yeah, yeah. I have a dream that shelters will eventually at least look at no so I've talked to a few shelters here in Indiana, and they, they seem interested at first, and then they never really follow through. You know, they, my son worked at one of the biggest shelters in Indianapolis, and they, they always had at least 100 dogs in the shelter at any time. And they, they were interested, you know, I said this, this is something you could adopt. It would save the shelter a ton of money. And you, you'd have healthier animals. I mean, you wouldn't have kennel cough in your shelter, you know, you wouldn't have a lot of things, probably, but they, they just couldn't do it. You know, they had a higher up board member that was a veterinarian, and he, I think he shot it down.
Speaker 1 25:55
Yep. Getting getting past the traditionalist is going to be really, really, really tricky. But, you know, I will say in in my practice area, we did a lot of titers because that's what that's that was the only way we could get our clients, animals into boarding, grooming, daycare,
Speaker 2 26:12
whatever. Golden Ticket. Yeah.
Speaker 1 26:15
So we, we would do titers every year, just so if they weren't going to those places, I was like, well, then you don't need it. Who cares? But if they needed something to get in the door, yeah, we would do that so that they could get in the door, you know, but it would be so much. And so we educated the board and grooming daycare in our area. And I'm sure that because of what you do in your practice, you've been able to educate a lot of those facilities in your area, and it's really helpful to have a veterinarian in that corner.
Speaker 2 26:48
We have one kiddo who, I can't believe it, yeah, one kiddo won't accept our dog's Bordetella. If we gave it, they won't accept it. They call it our mystery drops. He said they use mystery drops. Can't let you board here.
Speaker 1 27:03
So, yeah, my old business partner called it black magic and voodoo. And I was like, well, it's working, so, you know, it's all good.
Speaker 2 27:11
I had a, I have a trainer friend who ran a boarding training facility. He wouldn't let dogs come in if they'd recently had the portatella, because they would shed it. And he did like that. So he made him wait at least three months. Yeah, and it's really cut down on his problems. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We
Speaker 1 27:29
tried to get the kennels to do that too. We are out of time you have. You're just a wealth of information. For anyone wanting more information about homeopathy, Dr Todd Cooney. His website is natural animal consulting.com that will be in the show notes. Everyone check that out. This is, this is great information. And maybe, maybe I should have gone a little deeper into that homeopathy thing. I love that you've been able to give up the vaccines, and hopefully you will have a master all that data, can get it published and, you know, get some proof out there that. Look, I'll try good stuff. This
Speaker 2 28:08
works. It's nothing else I can do, I know. So, you know, I'm kind of working on a little ebook. There you go. So for that,
Speaker 1 28:14
that would be amazing people to that. Thank you. There you go. There you go. Thank you very much. Dr Cooney, Have a blessed day, week, month, year, and thank you for everything that you're
Unknown Speaker 28:28
doing. You too. Thanks so much.
Speaker 1 28:30
Thanks for listening to another great naturally healthy pets episode. Be sure to check out the show notes for some helpful links. And if you enjoy the show, please be sure to follow and listen for free on your favorite podcast app. We value your feedback, and we'd love to hear from you on how we're doing. Visit drjudimorgan.com for healthy product recommendations, comprehensive courses, upcoming events and other fantastic resources. Until next time, keep giving your pet the vibrant life they deserve. The purpose of this podcast is
Speaker 4 28:58
to educate and to inform. It is no substitute for professional care by a veterinarian, licensed nutritionist or other qualified professional. You're encouraged to do your own research, and should not rely on this information as professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. Dr Judy and her guests express their own views, experience and conclusions. Dr Judy Morgan's naturally healthy pets neither endorses or opposes any particular view discussed here you.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
