INTRO 0:00
In today's episode, you are going to get a wealth of information. What is a holistic pet health coach? What is a holistic nutrition coach? How do you know who to get for that? And how do you know whether they are offering good advice? Dr Loudon and I are going to talk about this and much more.
Dr. Judy Morgan
Hello and welcome to the Naturally Healthy Pets podcast. I'm your host, Dr Judy Morgan. My guest today is Dr Lynda Loudon, and she is a leader in integrative emergency veterinary medicine, which is pretty cool to be doing integrative emergency veterinary medicine. We don't hear that very often. She has over 24 years of experience, and she has a lot of other irons in the fire that we'll talk about as we go along. Lynda, thank you for joining me today.
Dr. Lynda Louden 0:52
Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.
Dr. Judy Morgan 1 0:54
So today we want to talk about the canine wellness movement. So let's talk about what that is, because you and I are both seeing the same trend. And you know, maybe we shouldn't call it the canine wellness movement, because this actually encompasses, I think, all of our animals, even including farm animals and horses. But what, what do you consider the new wellness movement?
Dr. Lynda Louden 1:22
I see it as you know, these guardians who want more for their pets, maybe they have been through a traumatic event with a past pet that they feel if they had made different decisions or had different knowledge At that time, things would have turned out differently. A lot of them, and they've taken it on themselves to learn and get the knowledge to take better care of their pets, or maybe they just their vet isn't giving them everything they think they need and they want more, and so they're going out and They're learning on their own.
Dr. Judy Morgan 1 2:01
I just saw a social media post yesterday from a fellow Cavalier King Charles Spaniel owner, and she was really distraught, because she took her nine year old Cavalier to the cardiologist, and the dog was in congestive heart failure. And the cardiologist said, your dog will never come out of congestive heart failure. Your dog has at most five to six months to live, supplements and diet don't help at all. Your dog is going to die. What a horrible proclamation. And you know, I'm really shocked that that particular cardiologist's crystal ball works that well, because I think the rest of us don't have a crystal ball that can predict when an animal is going to die. And I think that, you know, and it's funny, my friend Michele Allen, who owns Monkey's House, senior dog hospice and sanctuary, she keeps saying, I hate the word failure. Why do we diagnose our animals as failures? Why do we call it kidney failure? Why do we call it heart failure? Couldn't we call this a challenge? Wouldn't it make more sense? So I mean, I don't know about you, but when I was in practice, people, of course, being holistic, everybody comes to you sort of as the last resort. I already went to seven different veterinarians, and they all told me there was nothing we could do. What do you have? Which it's a little bit frustrating, folks, if you could come to us a little bit earlier, we might not have to get to that stage. We would really appreciate it. But I always felt like I had more tools in my bag, more tricks up my sleeve. I always felt like there was something that we could offer.
Dr. Lynda Louden 3:40
Yeah, yeah. And I think that's so important for guardians to know and to listen to their intuition. When a vet says, okay, like, you're going to the ER and your dog's collapsed, and they say they've got a bleeding tumor, like, this is one example I see a lot. They go into the ER and they're like, Okay, you can euthanize, or you can go to surgery, and that Guardian is thinking, their intuition is like, I'm not really okay with either of those choices right now.
Dr. Judy Morgan 4:09
what's option C, right?
Speaker 2 4:10
And they have to be brave enough to say, I'm what is? What else can we do? And maybe it is that 13 year old dog who's already been suffering before this happened, and euthanasia does feel right, but if it doesn't ask the vet, say, what is Option C, can I keep my dog comfortable? Can I stabilize it for now, while I get a second opinion, or while I think about these really huge options that I have to make a a decision on
Dr. Judy Morgan 4:39
I do some fast research and say, Yeah, what else is out there?
Dr. Lynda Louden 4:43
Can I buy my dog some comfort and time?
Dr. Judy Morgan 4:49
Yeah, I think that a lot of people are really searching for, what can I do? And so. I feel like the and I'm jumping all around here, but I feel like the veterinary profession is in a little bit of a crisis, actually, maybe a lot of a crisis. So it kind of goes up and down where there's a shortage of veterinarians. Nobody can get an appointment. I mean, I have people when I first retired from practice, especially during covid, and you couldn't get in anywhere. And people were saying, I, you know, I just moved to this town. I'm trying to find a new veterinarian. I'm told that for my dog's ear infection, I have to wait three weeks for an appointment. If I want a routine appointment, it'll be six months. If I want to see the cardiologist, the neurologist, pick your specialist. It's a nine to 12 month wait. And then we swing the other way at times where now I'm seeing a lot of veterinarians saying things are really slow. My production is really down. I'm not seeing as many patients, so it's really hard for the pet parent to navigate both of those extremes.
Dr. Lynda Louden 6:04
Yeah, yeah. And when I started my career in an ER, they came in and they were treated like I never were. They in a parking lot for an hour before they could get and now it can even extend to three hours before an ER doctor can see them. So one of
Dr. Judy Morgan 6:20
So one of my clients contacted me in the middle of the night. I'm an insomniac. I've gotten better since retirement, but I was really an insomniac back then, and so shortly after I retired, a client was texting me at one o'clock in the morning, and her dog had hemorrhagic gastroenteritis. She you know, this was not her first rodeo. She knew what was going on, so the dog is spewing blood out of both ends. And she knew that this was a ticking time bomb of dehydration and being in huge trouble and going into multi organ failure, so she called the closest emergency service, and they said, Oh, we're not we're diverting. There's, there's nobody available to see your pet. She ended up calling everyone within a four hour radius, and no one would take her dog
Dr. Judy Morgan 7:09
That is really crazy. She finally did manage to get the dog seen about six hours later, and the veterinarian that finally took the dog said another hour, this dog would have been dead, and she knew that she spent all night trying to find someone to treat this animal. And I hear that a lot with emergency services, they're so busy that they're diverting that they just don't have enough staff. They don't so even if they say, yeah, we'll see your animal, you can come sit in the parking lot. Your pet may die in the parking lot while you're waiting. Yeah, it's, it's not a good situation right now. And then we also have huge financial issues around emergency medicine, specialty medicine, big surgeries. Unfortunately, I think, from my perspective, the takeover of corporate medicine has had a huge role in that, because two thirds of the specialty hospitals are now owned by one pet food Corporation, Candy Company, and so they get to set the price wherever they want.
Dr. Lynda Louden 8:17
And the prices are ridiculous, ridiculous, exorbitant. And, you know, you and I both have done those surgeries, those and it took a lot of experience and a lot of schooling, and we do deserve to be paid for those surgeries, but they're $20 - $30,000 for a surgery that I was just a few years ago was doing for $3000. you know, it's and then those animals are getting euthanized a lot of the time because they can't afford it.
Dr. Judy Morgan 8:46
Sure, financial euthanasia has become a huge problem. So the goal, I think, a lot of what you teach and you have, you have the Dog Mom Society, that dog moms can become members to learn more so that you can be more proactive. I think you and I both have this passion for empowering pet parents through education. I think that an educated pet parent one has a much better chance of keeping their pet out of the ER. I mean, there are some things we can't predict. We can, you know if they're going to have a ruptured splenic tumor, oopsie. You know, not much you can do at home, but that education is helping to keep these animals from going to the ER and from having these chronic issues.
Dr. Lynda Louden 9:39
Yeah, for sure. And as an ER doctor, I had a different perspective than the GP, because I was treating the problems that I saw. A lot of them were coming from what we were doing in the GP. And so I got very frustrated, and I wanted to reach those guardians before they needed the ER, you know, if they had made those different decisions. You know, they wouldn't have been in my last one. That was the straw that broke my back. Was a cat that was 16 years old that the owner, on a Friday said he means so much to me. It's just me and him. I just want to make sure I'm doing everything right. Brought him into the vet, and he'd been eating a little bit more and was a little thin, and they did blood work, sent it out, and gave him four vaccines, and he hadn't had vaccines since he was a kitten, and so the 16 year old cat that was trucking along, she wanted to make sure he was going to be healthy forever. I spent the whole weekend in the ER trying to save him and I couldn't.
Dr. Lynda Louden 10:43
And watching that woman, like, fall to the floor when I told her I couldn't save it, and that realization that she made a decision to take her cat to the vet that led to him his early death, I was like, I gotta do something. And that's when I started Dog Moms
Dr. Judy Morgan 11:00
What kind of reaction did the cat have to all those vaccines that put him in crisis?
Dr. Lynda Louden 11:05
He went into an immune mediated crisis, you know, and then ended up his bone marrow was depleted and sepsis, he couldn't handle it, and he was hyperthyroid, right? So I called that vet, and I said, at least you wait till the blood work. You know, we had the conversation about, does a 16 year old cat need vaccines? And that vet really, he was an old timer. He really felt it did right. He truly believed he was doing good. I wasn't going to change that. But he's like, at least I yeah, I will get the blood results on a 16 year old cat before I decide they need a vaccine, or four vaccines. So that's when I was like, I want to empower the guardians with the dog mom society, so they get trusted information and they don't end up, you know, in that situation.
Dr. Judy Morgan 11:58
Yeah. I mean, I see it all the time. People, people learn so much. And you know, I was giving a lecture yesterday, and I said, if nothing else you you don't want to put yourself in a position as a pet owner where you did something like this, this owner who took her cat in with the best of intentions and the veterinarian gave four vaccines with the best of intentions because of what his beliefs were. And the owner is believing the veterinarian because she wants what's best for her cat. She's being told that's what's best for her cat. But then when the cat goes into this autoimmune crisis, now we've got an owner who, one is devastated at the loss of her cat. Two is wracked with guilt for allowing that to happen to her cat. And I never want people to have that guilt of I gave that pesticide that caused my pet to die, or I gave that pesticide that caused my pet to have seizures, or I fed that food that caused my pet to have whatever the problem was. And you know, the thing is, you don't know what you don't know. So for pet parents out there who might be feeling guilty because you allowed your pet to be given something, or you gave them something because you trusted and you believed that that was the best thing for them. You didn't know what you didn't know, and so you can't feel guilty about it. You can't rest on that. The only thing you can do is honor your pet, move forward, learn more, and try to prevent that sort of thing from happening in the future.
Dr. Lynda Louden 13:43
Yeah, and I've done that with every I've owned, a lot of dogs walked, besides a lot of dogs, there's not one that I wouldn't have done something different, that I didn't learn from and say, Well, if I hadn't have done this, or I could have done this, maybe they would have lived a little bit longer. It would have been a little healthier. And we just we can't beat ourselves up. We have to take it and grow with it. And our dogs come to teach us
Dr. Judy Morgan 14:06
absolutely. You know, it's funny, Michele Allen and I both have that same mentality of every animal that comes into our life comes in to teach us something 100% it's because that's a gap in our knowledge or in our emotions that we need to learn. Yeah, and so I'm I'm very much about taking what our animals bring for us, and if it's a learning experience, then that's great. We're going to learn from them. And, you know, our animals think about things a lot differently. That's a whole different conversation. So because people want to take more into their own hands, you. Some people are willing to jump in with both feet and learn everything they can. Other people are hiring pet health coaches, holistic health coaches, nutritionists. I mean, it kind of runs the gamut. What kind of things are you seeing? Do any of the people coming into the ER say, Well, I have a pet health coach or an animal communicator, or somebody that I'm working with?
Dr. Lynda Louden 15:25
Nutritionists. I do hear that more now, like I am working with a nutritionist, I hear that more common. You know, I personally in the ER, haven't heard the pet health coach yet, but I have a lot of pet health coaches in my dog mom society, and I've had pet health coaches come through my Experts Academy, where I've helped them with their online businesses. So I've had a lot of interaction with them. I think it's a great thing. I think that we have to be careful about some things, just like with everything you know, I've seen amazing coaches that have made huge differences in pets' lives, who know more about nutrition than I do. And you know, I will recommend them to my dog moms. And they're amazing. They fill in those gaps, right? That, you know, we can't be everything to everyone. We can't be the master of all trades. And if that's a red flag to me. If someone's out there trying to be that, then I'm like, I don't believe you. So they can fill in the gaps and be a huge support system. If I was opening a practice today, I would want a nutritionist and a holistic pet health coach to be part of it. To say, okay, you know, I'm gonna take care of the problem right now. I'm gonna give you my plan, and then I'm gonna go see my next patient while someone comes in and talks to you about nutrition, because that's important for this dog.
Dr. Judy Morgan 16:52
Yeah. So it's interesting that you would want a nutritionist. When I had my practice, we were very integrated, and my thing is food therapy. So, you know, I'm like, the food guru. I love that. But one of my technicians, we actually called her the food guru, because people could come in and they would say, you know, we always asked, What are you feeding, which most veterinary clinics do not ask. We always ask, what are you feeding? And a lot of times the owner would say, Oh, I can't, I can't remember. It's a big blue bag. It's got mountains, and it looks kind of like a wolf on it. And my technician would know exactly whatever they described. She knew all the brands, all the labels, she knew the ingredients. It was just her hobby. She just studied this stuff all the time. And so I actually sent her to Chi Institute to do the technician TCVM course. And clearly I had written books on TCVM Food therapy, and that's all we talked about. I had so many handouts, and she knew that forward and backward. So I could actually send her in the room after me, and she would go over the nutrition. So I had that nutrition health coach as part of my practice. And I would say that every practice should invest in that, particularly if you're an integrated practice. Now there, there are food therapy certifications that technicians can get that are put out by a very large pet food company. We really don't recommend that kind of nutritional advice, because they're going to tell you which prescription diet to feed, and that's not what we want. Okay, so we need to take a break, but when we come back, I want to dive more into this holistic pet health coach, nutritionist, whatever it is that people are turning to for help. How do we know whether we're getting a good one a bad one? What kind of training should they have that can be just as hard to navigate as finding the right veterinarian? Stay tuned. We'll be right back
PRODUCT SPOTLIGHT #1
At K9/Feline Natural they believe nature knows best. That's why their premium pet food is proudly made using only grass fed, grass finished meat, never grain fed, never compromised. That means higher omega threes, conjugated linoleic acids, and lower saturated fats and bacterial counts, supporting shiny coats, vibrant energy and overall wellness. Their recipes are rich in high quality meat, including nutrient dense green tripe for gut health and enhanced with muscles, a superfood packed with EPA and DHA to help maintain a normal inflammatory response. K9/Feline Natural is a diet that's biologically appropriate, scientifically sound and naturally powerful. Use code DRJUDY20 for a 20% off discount on US.K9FelineNatural.com. For clean, natural nutrition inspired by nature and backed by science.
PRODUCT SPOTLIGHT #2
Thank you to Tickless for sponsoring this podcast episode. Tickless is a global leader in chemical free products designed to help prevent tick bites. In addition to their gentle ultrasonic technology devices trusted in more than 50 countries, Tickless also offers non toxic collars, Spot ons and wet wipes in Europe. Their mission is to provide smart, family friendly solutions for pets and people who love the outdoors. Tickless pet is their best known device, a simple, durable option for all sizes of pets, from tiny breeds to large adventure dogs. It's safe to use daily when attached to a collar or harness. Tickless Mini is the compact, rechargeable version created for pet parents who want long lasting convenience in a modern, lightweight design, and for your indoor environment, there's Tickless Home developed to support pets dealing with dust mites, while also helping to prevent tick and flea bites. It may ease issues related to dust mites offering an additional layer of comfort at home. All tickless devices operate without chemicals, and they're designed to avoid allergic reactions, giving your family and pets more peace of mind, while also being cost effective. To learn more, visit www.ticklessusa.com, and as a listener of this podcast, you can enjoy 15% off your order with code DRJUDY at checkout.
Dr. Judy Morgan
welcome back. You're listening to the Naturally Healthy Pets podcast. My guest today, Dr Lynda Loudon is a leader in integrative emergency veterinary medicine with over 24 years experience, and she also has a dog mom society and Canine Leadership Institute. She kind of does a lot of things to help within the wellness space, and it's greatly appreciated. So we're talking about the canine wellness movement, which really goes across all species, not just canines, but it's getting more and more common for people to want help, holistic help with their pets. I get requests for consultations on a daily basis, and I just don't have the bandwidth to do a lot of them. I used to do a lot more, so I take very few. So there need to be a lot of people to fill in the gaps. And there just aren't enough holistic veterinarians to go around. There aren't enough holistic veterinarians that are able to do remote telehealth visits. And so this gap is now being filled in by a lot of pet parents who are becoming nutritionists, holistic health coach. When would be a good idea for a pet parent to look at getting this sort of help?
Dr. Lynda Louden 22:59
I think there's a couple of good scenarios where I would say it's a good idea, like maybe you have an allergy dog, and you've just been giving an injection once a month. That's what your vet has offered you, and you either the effects are wearing off, is not really working anymore. It's never worked, or you really are being conscious of I don't want my dog getting an injection every month for the rest of the life their life, and thinking about what those side effects might be down the road. And so now you want to find someone who really knows nutrition, because your vet's not offering that. They're only offering, you know, the hydrolyzed diet, and that doesn't feel right for you. So you want to reach out and find a nutritionist or holistic pet coach who really works with allergy dogs. You know, that's a great option. Maybe you have a new puppy, and you went into the vet and said, What's the best diet? And they, you know, just pointed you to the grocery store, the grocery store, the top, you know, kibble brands, the most popular. And you're like, that's not what I was looking for. Okay, my vet is great for other things that I need, but let me look elsewhere for that advice for my new puppy. So I think there's and then maybe dog has a chronic disease and it's just not getting better, and you need to not just accept that, and you're not willing to accept that. Let's see if I can find someone else who can come at it at a different angle.
Dr. Judy Morgan 24:33
And so what I find is some of these pet parents have multiple, multiple people helping them. So they might have a nutritionist, they might have a homeopath, they might have a holistic veterinarian, because actually not all holistic veterinarians are nutritionists or have a lot of knowledge about nutrition. So we all kind of pick our niche. You know, if somebody wants wants truly to follow a homeopathic path, I'm the wrong person to call that is not my specialty, but they might have a homeopath that they're using, along with nutritional advice from me, along with essential oil advice from someone else. How do you recommend people go about finding those coaches and what are the resources for that?
Dr. Lynda Louden 25:34
Like anything else, your best bet is if you get a direct referral from someone who has worked with them and had a great experience and actually saw results. Yeah, that's, of course, gold, but not always an option. So if, if you don't get that direct referral, then you've really got to do some digging. And I've been burned before, you know, thinking someone talked the Good talk, they seemed to have the experience that I needed to refer someone to them, and I didn't dig deep enough, and they weren't even certified, like they said they were. And so you've got to make sure, you know, are there certifications up on their website? If not, where are they? And can you show me them? And, you know, have you worked with dogs like this? Like, is this your thing? Your Niche? Because, like I said before, if they're like, Oh, I do it all, that's a red flag for me. I don't believe you. You know you can't master all of these things. I see puppies. I see geriatric arthritis dogs. I'll fix your allergy dog. I don't say that, so I don't, I'm not going to trust a nutritionist who just got a certification to tell me they do all of that really, really well. So look for someone who is really honed in on what your dog needs. Talk to people. Look Do they have Google reviews? Do they have Yelp reviews? Do they have no reviews? That's another red flag. You know, I've seen people wiping out their bad reviews. So read testimonials. How long? How many experience? Like if someone walked into my clinic and said, I said, you need bloat surgery, and they they should be asking me, How many bloat surgeries have you done? Right? And I'll say hundreds, maybe 1000s. But if I if they came in and I said, Well, I've done three. Would you let me do a major surgery on your dog if you had a choice? No, and I wouldn't do that with any of these other coaches. I'd want to know, like, how many allergy dogs at this state have you helped? Can you tell me about them? And you know, hopefully you'll they'll be transparent
Dr. Judy Morgan 28:00
So it's really just asking a lot of questions, trying to get a lot of answers. I think looking at the certifications, and, you know, even the certifications are all over the place. Some are much better than others.
Dr. Lynda Louden 28:14
Unlike everything, like dog trainers, right? Anyone can get a dog training certificate too.
Dr. Judy Morgan 28:20
Yeah, it's funny, because in my book Raising Naturally Healthy Pets, I talk about hiring a trainer and a lot of the questions that you should ask and what the different certifications mean. And you know, hiring a pet health coach or a nutritionist is no different. You know, what is your background in this? And it's really interesting. There are some people online who believe that the only nutritionist that has any value is a board certified veterinary nutritionist. And I think one, there's only, like 95 of them in existence, so there aren't very many. So that's a problem. Two, I don't like the way they formulate. Most of them use a synthetic vitamin mineral mix, and they use software that says, Pick one protein, one starch and one vegetable, and they're about, you know, 30% 30% 30% and the vitamin mineral mix, and to me, that is not formulating a specific diet for an individual patient. And so there, there is some confusion around what qualifies as a nutritionist. You know, do do? Does someone need to be a board certified veterinary nutritionist in order to make a recipe for your pet, or are there other nutritionists that may have a ton of experience or a ton of education that could provide something. Think that is really good. And I think that same thing can occur with herbalists. It can occur with I mean, look at Rita Hogan. She's not a veterinarian, she's not a board certified veterinary herbalist, but she's probably one of the most brilliant herbalists I know. So, you know, sometimes we kind of have to look past the academia and look at what is the knowledge level of this person that I am asking questions of
Dr. Lynda Louden 30:30
and experience. I think that is so important, because I think I've also seen this, you know, a large Facebook following and social media presence doesn't equal experience, and I've been burned with that. Well, my dog moms have been burned with that. Very popular nutritionist, you know, in the space, wrote a book, gave really poor advice to one of my dog moms, and I had to fix an acute problem because of it, and the dog was hospitalized. So just because they're popular and everyone likes them, and they've got a following, doesn't mean they have the experience that they've actually, you know, maybe they wrote a book, but have they been managing cases? You know, research is great and part of it, but it can't be where all of the recommendations are coming from. there has to be some experience in there that of working, because we know like we didn't, we grew much more out of vet school than we did in right? We had to work through them and see what worked, what didn't, what worked for some didn't work for others, and hone our craft over the years. You can't just, you know, now, chat GBT or do research and then be able to transfer that into clinical practice
Dr. Judy Morgan 31:51
yeah, and it's so individualized. And I would be very careful with anyone who said, Well, this is the one and only cancer diet that should be used for every pet with cancer. No two cancers are the same there. There's a website. I can't remember the name of it now, and I wouldn't say it anyway, but an individual whose dog got cancer, and so he made a diet for his dog, and did all kinds of stuff, and then put himself out there as the cancer expert, selling all sorts of cancer handouts and, you know, books. And it was, this was probably 15 years ago that this happened, and I started questioning, and I ended up getting blocked because, you know, I was like, Well, what makes you an expert? Your training has nothing to do with any of this. You had one dog who did pretty well with what you did, but that doesn't make you the cancer expert who is now charging people a lot of money to get advice from you when you had one. I mean, a trial study of one, if that was being used for a drug to hit the market, we would, I mean, I get really upset when I see trial studies of 200 for a drug that hit the market. Yeah? Because when we get to 2 million, now, we've got some statistics
Dr. Lynda Louden 33:32
And you see that all the time. You see it, you know, they label themselves as an expert because they had a dog that passed away from that, and they learned something about it, and that's great, that that is pushing you forward, and that you are going to grow and help others and bring others along your path. But question like, What makes you an expert in that? You know, were you mentored by an expert? You know? Question that?
Dr. Judy Morgan 34:01
Yeah, I remember when I first started doing phone consults for people. I had a client, and she was working with a pet health coach, nutritionist, and she wanted, during her consultation, she wanted to have a three way call and have her coach on the line with me, and I thought, Wow, this could be challenging, depending on the knowledge level of this person that's on the line. And it ended up being very challenging because the coach had minimal knowledge. And so the first thing I did is I asked the coach when they came on. I said, Well, what is your background? What is your training? You know? What are you certified in? Certified in nothing. And I read a few books, and that was the training. And I thought, wow, and you're putting yourself out as this pet health coach, and you haven't even worked. With real, live animals, other than what you read in a book. So don't be afraid to ask questions. Don't be afraid to ask for proof. Don't be afraid to say, give me the names of a couple people that I can call. You know, if they can't give you testimonials, or you don't have anything, you know, any way to really check them out. Say, can I talk to a couple people that you worked with?
Dr. Lynda Louden 35:25
That's reasonable, yes. And if they have nothing to hide, they're going to be happy to give you that information.
Dr. Judy Morgan 35:31
They'll give you 10. Yeah, it's, it's, it's tricky.
Dr. Lynda Louden 35:36
and listen to your intuition.
Dr. Judy Morgan 35:39
And listen to your intuition. You know that that old thing called gut instinct, it's real.
Dr. Lynda Louden 35:43
It's real.
Dr. Lynda Louden 35:44
You know, every time we've not listened, we're like, it went wrong.
Dr. Judy Morgan 35:48
It went wrong. She got a bad vibe on that one,
Dr. Lynda Louden 35:50
you know. And you're connected to your dog more than anybody. Yeah, and your your intuition, together, is going to guide you if you listen to it. And even in the hard spots when there's an authority telling you something, your intuition is saying you gotta listen.
Dr. Judy Morgan 36:05
I used to love that, you know, clients would come to the clinic and I'd say, well, here's our options. And they're like, Yeah, my gut says that one doesn't feel good. And kind of like the sounds of that, but I need more information. Is you know, you know your animal the best, you know, and it's really frustrating. Sometimes a client comes in with an animal and they're like, he's just not right. I had a client like that. She had a beautiful Bernese show dog, and she'd been at a dog show, and a couple weeks after the show, she brought him in, and he's bouncing off the walls, happy, goofy guy that he is. He was like, three years old, and she says, he's just not right. I'm like, What do you mean? He's like, he's licking everybody, he's happy, he's bouncing around. I'm like, What do you mean? She goes, he's just, I just know my dog, something is not right. I said, Well, okay, we'll start with some lab work. And that darn dog had serious kidney problems. And it ended up he had gotten lepto at the show, and she just knew her dog so well, nobody else would have ever known her dog had an issue. And she was like, No, we're going to chase this down. We're going to fight. And so when his kidney values came back high, and I mean eating a raw diet, perfectly healthy dog, she's like, Well, wasn't that way before we went to the show. So something happened, and that was enough to push me to say, Okay, well now we've got these bad kidney values. What could they be from? And so then we had to do more testing, and we had to figure out, and I mean, he ended up dying of old age, not related to his kidney problem at all, and just the most amazing dog, most amazing clients. And they actually moved from New Jersey to Tennessee to retire, and when it was time for him to go over the rainbow bridge, they drove him in their motor home from Tennessee back to me.
Dr. Lynda Louden 37:53
Gives me goosebumps
Dr. Judy Morgan 37:56
so sweet, his final moments with us,
Dr. Judy Morgan 38:00
we actually had he's a really good story, and if she's listening to this, she'll know who I'm talking about. We had an animal communicator there at the time that we euthanized him, and the communicator said, after he was after we'd given the injection and he was gone. He said, Well, he's not gone. He's standing at the door, wagging his tail, and he wants to know when you're getting getting in the motorhome, because he wants to go for the ride back to Tennessee. You better hurry. And they were like, all right, gotta go bye. So you know, there's, there's so much that goes on in the animal world that we are just not privy to,
Dr. Lynda Louden 38:45
yeah, so much of it with my home euthanasia.
Dr. Judy Morgan 38:48
Yeah, I'm I'm sure, okay, when we come we need to take another break and we come back, we're going to talk about some of the responsibilities of people who are taking on these roles as pet health coaches, nutrition counselors, whatever that may be, stay tuned. We'll be right back.
PRODUCT SPOTLIGHT #3 39:07
You've heard us say it many times, fresh real food is the foundation of health. The team here at Naturally Healthy Pets has been feeding raw for years, and we love how My Pet Carnivore can build a personalized Raw Meal plan that fits your dog's needs perfectly in just a few minutes. Raw feeding should never be overwhelming. Since 2010 they've provided the highest quality, nutritious raw food from trusted local sources, and now they even offer the convenience of customized kits for your needs. The My Pet Carnivore raw feeding bundles make starting easy with variety and balanced rotation, or they also carry the same organs that Dr Judy uses in her pup loaf recipes, heart, liver and gizzards, so you can confidently build homemade meals yourself. Not ready to fully go raw yet, that's okay. They also have boneless lines that are safe to cook. It's a great first step into fresher feeding. Use code TRUST for 15% off your first order at mypetcarnivore.com and be sure to check out their educational blog and join their email list for ongoing deals.
Dr. Judy Morgan 40:14
Welcome back. You're listening to the Naturally Healthy Pets podcast. I'm your host Dr. Judy Morgan. My guest today. Dr, Lynda Loudon has a couple of groups that you might be interested in. One is the dog mom society, and the other is the Canine Leadership Institute. So if someone was interested in starting a business, whether it's a holistic health coach or a nutritionist or whatever that may be, to help pet parents on their journey to try to keep their pets out of the ER. What advice would you give those people who might want to start a business and what, what factors would really play into them having a good business?
Dr. Lynda Louden 41:04
Yeah, I think they need to ask themselves some tough questions, like, Am I an entrepreneur? Right? Because you really do have to have an entrepreneurial spirit. You have to love that part of it in order to be happy in it and and be successful. You know, I've seen a lot of you know health coach who they're passionate about the health coach part of it, but they don't want to deal with the business part of it. And that's not going to work, right? You have to love
Dr. Judy Morgan 41:33
or you're going to hire somebody to run the business part of it
Dr. Lynda Louden 41:35
part of it, right, right? But what I say to them is, you have to learn the business before you can hire someone, because you're not going to be able to manage them. Right? When I was learning the online business, I was like, Nope, I'm going to hire for that. I'm going to hire for that. I'm not learning that. And then I realized, nope. Like, how am I going to manage someone in that position if I don't even know how to do it? So I learned it, and I decided to become obsessed with the business part of it. And then when you a lot of times we don't like things because we don't know them. we have resistance because we just feel uncomfortable because we don't have that knowledge. Yep. And when we decide, all right, for the next three months, six months, I'm going to be obsessed about a topic. You like it then, like, I never thought I'd teach business. I hated it. That was, like the bane of my existence. Starting this online business was all the tech stuff and figuring things out and barriers slowing me down because I'm an ER vet, I just want to get the answers and move on. And I was like, Okay, I've got to become obsessed with this. And I became obsessed with it, and then I was like, now I can't stop talking about it, because now I know how to do it, and I want to help everyone else do it. And so you have to decide, all right, I am going to figure out this business side of it as well, and then maybe I will offload that if I truly don't like it. But it is, you have to be prepared that it's not going to be overnight.
Dr. Judy Morgan 43:04
Yeah, and, you know, Naturally Healthy Pets started in our garage, and it started with my husband and I, and we are like, I am so anti tech, but along the way, we had to learn the tech. We had to learn different computer programs. We needed to learn different streaming platforms. We needed to figure out how to work the stupid iPhone and how to work different you know, buy different cameras and different equipment. And now I have other people who do all of that, so I don't have to worry about it anymore. But I think having had to go through that learning process, having to go through the learning process of figuring out how to order product and how much I needed and how often I needed to turn that over, and how often you know how I was going to pay those bills. When I bought my first veterinary clinic, I bought out my partner. He had done all the business stuff. I was just practicing medicine. I'm really good at practicing medicine. I was a great er vet. I was a great general practitioner. I was a great integrated vet. When I took over the business and I had to run the business side, that was when one year in facing bankruptcy, saying, I have no idea how to run a business, this is eye opening, and I had to hire consultants who had to teach me how to do all of that. So you're right for anyone who wants to go into any sort of a pet business, whether you're a pet Walker, a pet sitter, boarding, daycare, grooming, pet health coach, learning that business and I would strongly advise taking your advice. Learn the business side first, so that a year in, you're not facing bankruptcy, going, oh my gosh, now I have employees I'm responsible for and everything else. So where's a good place for people to get that business knowledge. Where did you turn to?
Dr. Lynda Louden 45:03
I turned I took a year long course. I took a lot of courses. Let me tell you, I spent a lot of money on different courses. I took a Dean Graziosi course for a year. It was Tony Robbins and Dean Graziosi, and that was on just online business, super expensive, a lot of time, and that's why I start. I made my course because there was still so much I felt I still had to learn on my own after it, and so I wanted to fill in those gaps and give people a really good starting point. So I have a couple of programs. I have the launch pad, canine launch pad, which is like, you're just starting out, and it just kind of gives you, you know, the steps of what you need to do in order to get online and start a business. And then I have the Experts Academy that I give once a year. That's more intense, but go online and find courses from people that have been doing it for a while and have had success, because there's also people who are like, Oh, I am just figuring this out, and they're charging a lot of money for a course that they're just figuring it out, right? So look and make sure people have had some success for what they're teaching. Before you spend money on their courses?
Dr. Judy Morgan 46:16
Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, we're we're all learning so Naturally Healthy Pets, has been around now for about 11 years, and we just in the past year, have really started to dive deep into a lot of the legal aspects, some of the things that have to be incorporated into your website, from a legal standpoint, things that have to be incorporated in your contracts, there's always so much more to learn. And I would also say, if people are wanting to start this pet health coach, nutrition health coach, whatever it is, check your legal status and make sure that it is okay for you to do what you're doing, particularly in the state you're doing it or crossing state lines, there's a lot of gray areas. So telehealth is frowned upon in some areas and embraced in other areas. And you know, kind of making sure that you're staying in your lane, that you're not going to to get into trouble. So if someone wanted to be a pet health coach, they're not a veterinarian. They've got some training. They've got some certifications through your business training, do you recommend that those people get insured? And how would, how would they get insured?
Dr. Lynda Louden 47:42
Yeah, there's a lot of you know, get a recommendation from someone who has had their business insured. My lawyer recommended someone for me, and that's how I chose who I was going to go get insured by. But, yeah, absolutely you want to be insured
Dr. Judy Morgan 48:01
Because I know even for like, pet sitting and boarding, you know, you'll see bonded and insured. And I think that's pretty critical to protect yourself. It's unfortunately, we live in a litigious society where you could leave yourself wide open to some issues
Dr. Lynda Louden 48:19
And make sure that, like you said, you're following those guidelines, you're staying within your lane, right? You're not diagnosing, you're not you're making it clear you're not a veterinarian, and you have everything very clear on your website, in your communications, in your contract, of what you are providing
Dr. Judy Morgan 48:37
So even for you know, telehealth in veterinary medicine right now is a big gray zone, and AVMA frowns on it. They want you to have seen the pet in person, done a physical exam. I understand that. So even for if you're hiring a holistic veterinarian to do telehealth and help walk you through a case, there are limitations on that. So I can't see your animal, I can't feel your animal. I can't diagnose your animal. I can have your veterinary records from your veterinarian where it says the animal has been diagnosed with Cushing's disease. Here's the testing. If you wanted a prescription medication for your pet, your telehealth veterinarian cannot prescribe that they have not seen your pet in person. Could they say, well, these are supplements that have been used and shown to work, that they can do. But each state is very different, and so sometimes when you're talking to people, they may have to be walking a very, very fine line of what they're allowed to to recommend and not recommend. So, you know, pretty critical. You know, those red flags, somebody who says, Yeah, I can do that. Yeah, I can get a prescription for you. Not so. So don't go in to it with that expectation that they're going to, for instance, I can't even prescribe heartworm medication. That's, that's a prescription medication. So if you know, and I get people to reach out to me, Hey, I want to get the interceptor at the lower dose, my veterinarian won't prescribe it at the lower dose. Can you do that for me? Nope, I cannot do that. So, you know, we've all got to stay in our lanes. So do you have some stories of transformation, some of your so let's say somebody's in your your dog mom group, and they decide they want to go on and become a nutritional support person or a holistic pet health coach. Have you have many, had many people do that?
Dr. Lynda Louden 50:45
I have, you know, I meet with my group once a week. We have a Q and A and it's just this beautiful circle of women.
Dr. Judy Morgan 50:53
How many people are in that group?
Dr. Lynda Louden 50:54
There's about 200 in the group. And then there's, like, probably a good 15-20 every week that are, like my regulars, that they show up every week. I learn something from them every week, you know, they're so smart, and we've got women in there who are human doctors, human holistic practitioners, and so that everyone brings something different to the conversation. And so it's beautiful, and we're all growing together. So I forgot what the question
Dr. Judy Morgan 51:26
have you had any of these people go on to be pet health coaches, or transformations that you're seeing even in that group?
Dr. Lynda Louden 51:33
Yeah, just one of them that came comes every week. She had a Rhodesian Ridgeback, 10 months old that was diagnosed with Ehrlichia, and she comes to the group totally freaking out. My vet wants to put it on doxy for the next month and pred and do all the things. And I said, okay, just send me the records. I'll take a look and get a PCR, and is he clinical? No, not clinical. No symptoms like, send me his CBC, get a PCR. And she was stressed out for a week with all of the recommendations that were made, and PCR was negative. Dog didn't have Ehrlichia, didn't have to go through Doxy or pred or any of the things, and just that one little thing, that little advice that she just needed, made a whole difference for that dog and for that guardian.
Dr. Judy Morgan 52:35
Oh, absolutely. Because if so, what she's talking about are those from antech. It's called an acuplex. But basically, when you get a heartworm test now, you get a 40x which basically is diagnosing whether or not they have heartworm, Lyme, Ehrlichia and Anaplasma. And there are so many false positives on particularly the Ehrlichia and Anaplasma, and so if you get that positive and your your dog doesn't have any symptoms, we need to do follow up testing. So at minimum, we need a CBC, but a PCR test will tell you, is this an active infection or is it a false positive. And going that extra step, is it going to cost a little more money? Yes, but going that extra step to get the PCR that's negative, that dog was just saying, saved from immune suppression by prednisone, total dysbiosis of the microbiome in the skin, gut, lungs, everywhere in the body, from a month of doxycycline, plus the nausea that is associated with doxycycline. So then there probably would have been another medication added on for the nausea. It just becomes this, you know, Snowball down the mountain, and then probably a year to repair all that damage that would have been done, which was solved by asking one question and doing one test. So, you know, that's where these sorts of groups can be extremely helpful. Now, with that said, so that was clinical advice from a veterinarian who has seen a lot of these cases. There are so many online social media, Q and A groups with advice from non experts that you're shaking your head. We all shake our head at these and I guess I get really upset when somebody is online asking a question about something really serious that's going on with their pet, and it's like you should be at the ER right now. Why are you online while your pet is in the throes of something really dangerous? It's very frustrating. So with that said, online advice should never replace good medical exams, medical testing, medical advice.
Dr. Lynda Louden 55:07
And two things with that. One is, if you're working with a holistic coach, pet coach, nutritionist, they should also respect. They should not be saying, don't go to the vet, right? They should be working with your vet, and if they bash your vet, that's a red flag, you know, I'm a vet, so I might be a little biased, but you know, if they're saying I know everything and they know nothing, after they've spent, you know, eight-nine years honing their craft and becoming vets, then that's, that's a red flag, you know. And then the other thing is, if they are, you know, giving advice, it should all be based on, okay, that pet has to be individual and not a blanket. This is what we do for everything that does this. You know, I find that a lot and those Facebook groups, they make me crazy, like I've stopped my obsession, because that's why I started dog moms, because I was like, oh, I'll just have a Facebook group and I'll give people advice there, and then I would see these Facebook groups, and I'd be up at night going, I've got to answer some more questions, because these people are going down the wrong path,
Dr. Judy Morgan
and there's no way that that we as individuals can monitor the 1000s of holistic pet groups on social media.
Dr. Lynda Louden 56:36
That's why it's better to get into a group with someone who's leading it that you trust, where you know, the advice in there is vetted. And it's trusted advice that not everybody and their mother is coming in and just, you know, giving their opinion, and leading you down a very dangerous path potentially.
Dr. Judy Morgan 56:55
Yeah? So I would say, if you're using one of those online groups, check out who are the moderators, who's, who's who's keeping track of what advice is being given, who is giving that advice. Is that advice any good? I get really crazy. You know, some of these holistic groups, and then somebody will come in and say, feed this prescription kibble, and I'm like, You're in the wrong group. Pretty sure you're gonna get bashed for that, yeah,
Dr. Lynda Louden 57:21
yeah. Wrong group.
Dr Judy Morgan 57:23
Wrong group. Dr Louden, you are doing so many interesting things. And so for anyone who wants more information on the dog moms group, the business advice you have, you have great training for that. You've done summits. I've been on them. My daughter's been on them. You have so much stuff online that is available for people, so we will put in the show notes all the different places to find you. And you're offering a free one month trial in membership in the dog mom society, which is an amazing offer. So if anybody's listening, we'll have the link for that. Check it out. You can get good advice a weekly Q and A, oh my gosh. That's like, worth its weight in gold, right there. Yeah my Q and A's are down to once a month, so that's worth a lot.
Dr. Lynda Louden 58:11
Yeah. And it's a great time to come in, because we've got really neat things that we're rolling out. So it's perfect time to come in and get your free month.
Dr. Judy Morgan 58:21
Thank you very much for all that you're doing. I'm a little jealous that you get to practice emergency medicine. I miss it. I loved it, but I'm getting too old for that. Thank you very much
Dr. Lynda Louden 58:31
Thank you very much.
OUTRO/DISCLAIMER
The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. It is no substitute for professional care by a veterinarian, licensed nutritionist or other qualified professional. You're encouraged to do your own research, and should not rely on this information as professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. Dr Judy and her guests express their own views, experience and conclusions. Dr Judy Morgan's Naturally Healthy Pets neither endorses or opposes any particular view discussed here.
